Data Driven Webinars

Hello everyone and welcome back to Webinar Days 2025, the annual event for everyone doing webinars. So excited that all of you are still here with us and for those who are just tuning in, welcome so much. Thank you for taking the time out of your busy days to join us for Webinar Days. So if you don't know me, I have the pleasure of hosting Webinar Days this year and it's actually been the sixth consecutive year we've run Webinar Days. This makes us very proud because we're really on a mission to move the market of webinars and digital events forward and we want to inspire everyone who's participating in or organizing or working with webinars in their organization. So if any of this sounds like you, you've definitely found your place. I want you all to get settled in, grab a cup of coffee, a beverage of your choice, lean back and enjoy the content. Please don't be shy and interact in the chat. It's always very fun for the speakers and yeah, us who are sitting on the other side of the screens to get a little bit of engagement and to get to know who you guys are. So please type in a little fun fact about yourself, share something or if you don't want to share something, then just play around with the reaction features in the chat room. We have a very interesting session ahead of us today and I'm super excited about it personally because we're going to get an inside look at how SysPro kind of transformed their digital engagement strategy. We're going to learn about some of the challenges that they had that really shaped the approach and how an audience-centric webinar strategies are driving impact across customers, across partners and prospects and employees. And to really give us the insight and all of this, we're going to be hearing from Kelly Hatcherill, who describes herself as a bit of a data nut, but she worked on how she could kind of gain this full visibility into webinar engagement. And she connected SysPro's webinars and video data directly into their CRM system. So everyone, please join me with a little digital applause as we welcome Kelly to the screen. Hi, Kelly. Welcome. Can you hear me? Good. Thanks. And you? Yes, I can hear you just fine. Can you hear me? Yes, everything is looking great. How are you doing today? Very well, thanks. It's the end of my day and I'm happy to finish off my day with this webinar from sunny Johannesburg, South Africa. Wow. I'm envious. I can promise you it's not as sunny where I'm sitting right now. I heard. I was chatting to Alessandro earlier about it as well. He was a little bit jealous. I think he's going to move to Johannesburg because of that. Well, he might not be the only one. You're never going to meet a South African that doesn't tell you about their world-famous South African Springbok rugby team. Do you know what? I think life's a little bit difficult here. Our economy struggles a bit. Our government is non-existent. But you know what? We have good sunshine, good weather, and good space here, and good people, and good vibes all around. Yeah. And you can get really far with all of that. So thank you so much for taking the time to be with us. I think it's a very... This is the first time you're joining Webinar Days as a speaker, isn't it? Yes. It's the first time. Exactly. We're super excited to have you and to deep dive into everything that you've done with SysPro. I also heard that you shared a video with Alessandro that you wanted to show. So I'm going to hand over kind of the talking baton to you. You're going to do your thing, and whenever you want to play the video, just cue the team, and we'll get it on screen for you. And I'm so excited to hear more about your story. So whenever you're ready, Kelly, then just take it away. Absolutely. I'm ready to go. You can play the video. There's a nice little introduction to SysPro Software, the company that I work for. You can go ahead, and then I'll go into telling everybody about the strategies we apply within our business and our audiences. Thanks. You can bring up my slides. Okay. Well, it is a pleasure for me to join you today, and I'm excited to really share a lot of the change that has happened within SysPro over the last couple of years. And really, it was all because of 23 video and webinar platform, I think it was. It's quite a funny story, because in 2023, that is when we got 23 webinar and videos, and it really completely changed our video and webinar strategy in the business. It was a random day. I got an email from a very nice man named Kenny. I wasn't even looking for anything like that. We were kind of settling and running with running our webinars on Microsoft Team. I wasn't even aware of the capabilities of something like 23 webinar and videos. So it was a quiet day. I thought, let me book some time in this guy's diary. Let me have a quick chat. He seems really sweet. And I started having a chat with Kenny, and he started showing me the capabilities of 23 webinars and videos. And I think my whole life changed from that point of the possibilities of what we can apply in our business. And that really got us started. So I'm going to take you through a lot of the reasons, the challenges we had, how we apply our webinar strategies, very specific to different messaging for different audiences between our customers, our partners, our prospects, and our employees. And I think I always like to consider employees as an audience on its own. Employees, their attention needs to be managed, and it needs to be cared for. And to be able to have the data-driven webinars with our employees really helps us determine our employee engagement. Are our employees engaged? Are they listening? Are they learning? And are we sharing the right message with them? I think a lot of businesses don't really take the employee as an audience on its own. They just kind of, this is something you have to do because you're an employee. But I think nurturing employees is a very important part of it, especially in our business. We've got about 500 employees in the business. As Amelia did say, I do love to love the data. I am a data nut. And the data really runs the business as well. And it drives the data that is provided within 23 has really transformed the way we manage our webinar strategies. And then I do want to show you a little bit more. It's not so webinar focused. It's really about the use of how we use the video hosting platform with the actions and the forms to really bring in leads into the business. So about CISPRO, we are a proudly South African company. We started the business by a man named Phil Duff 47 years ago. And development and head office of CISPRO software is in Johannesburg, South Africa. But we are a global business. We do sell and support our software in Australia, Asia, America, Europe, as well as Africa. So it's also as our Springbok rugby team. It is also a proudly South African moment for me. And it's also probably a reason why I have been at CISPRO for 10 years. And we operate in about 60 different countries. We have 82,000 global users. And about our business, manufacturing software is a very niche market. And we have gone more into a deeper niche market with growing industry focused. We really specialize in a couple of selected industries being food, machinery, metals, medical, automotive, chemicals, furniture, electronics, and packaging. So with that very, very niche market, I'm sure all of you on this call are marketing experts yourself. You know how difficult it is really to target the right message to the right audience on those industries. You can go to the next slide. So starting off with a couple of challenges that we had in the business, we've obviously got really large amounts of software users. We've got 82,000 software users. We've got a huge channel network. We've got about 100 channel companies, which would bring that number to about, I would say, 2,000 channel users of the software. So our audience size is quite big. And what we were really doing before 23 videos is we were actually running our webinars on Microsoft Teams. And I was running the webinars on Microsoft Teams. And I found it very, very difficult to actually get any real data and insights on Microsoft Teams. I think one of the requirements that we had for webinars was to be able to determine who's registered versus who attended and versus who stayed on the webinar, really to understand if our audience is engaged. And we didn't have any of that data available. And I was having to log into Microsoft Teams and only, it was a very weird solution where I had to go and then export the contacts lists or the attendee lists on the team in order to be able to get the data. There was no before and after analysis of the data side of it with using Microsoft Teams, which was a challenge for us. And especially a challenge for me being the owner of the marketing data. And the one thing that really surprised me with 23 was the ability to integrate into HubSpot. And HubSpot is our CRM. Obviously, I think HubSpot is the best tool in the world, other than CISPRO, of course. And we had a lot of content chaos. I mean, obviously, with having such large audience segments, and I think content management governance in a business our size is critical. If you don't, from a marketing perspective, if you don't have governance and management of your content by audience, you cannot control the message that goes out to the public. So being able to have proper content management was a critical requirement for us. And then lastly, as we are a software company, the best way to sell software is to have demo videos. We obviously had quite a lot of demo videos on YouTube, but it didn't bring us the data and insights that we needed with our demo videos. And 23 really helped us to get that. I'll tell you a funny thing is we've actually, with the demo video engagements and being able to have the form submission on the demo video is really the only gated content that we have on our website. Because of this, our whole strategy has changed. We do not get brochures. We do not get ebooks. We do not get downloads anymore. If someone is filling in their information to watch a demo video, that is marked as higher intent than a brochure download. And we find that we were looking at the email addresses and the gated content and the brochure downloads and everything, that there was a lot of fake email addresses coming through. And so we're not doing that. And my marketing strategy is if you educate your audience, if you teach your audience something, they will remember your brand and they will return. So this is also a big reason why we do not gate any studies, any ebooks, any downloads on our website. But we obviously, from a marketing perspective, still need to generate leads so that we can nurture them. And 23 demo videos is that. So what it brings for us, obviously, being a data net is the engagement analytics. And I think it's very, very powerful for us to not only see who's attended, those who dropped off, how much of the webinar they attended, those who registered and did not attend, et cetera. I think it's very powerful for us to have those insights. Sorry, my manager messaged me. I'm busy. And I think the integration into HubSpot was an absolute deal winner for me. I did implement HubSpot into the business eight years ago. I think HubSpot really, for my love of tools, would probably be my first love, if I could say that. Second love, I would say, would be Power BI and finding Power BI on the data analytics side. But I can comfortably say 23 videos and demos takes the place because of the integration with HubSpot. And what that really helps us with is the lead scoring and who we can target first. So from a prospect perspective, you obviously want to be able to target those high intent prospects first rather than the low intent prospects. But also from a customer perspective, it's really good insights for us. And we've got some information that we send off to our account managers and saying, okay, your customer is currently active, watching videos, attending webinars. Perhaps it's time to pick up the phone, give them a call, book a meeting. They're obviously looking for something. And I think it's really important to have that information on hand as we're living in a digital world. So this is just to take you through a little bit of our strategy on our customer audience. Something that we do a couple of times, there's certain topics, certain webinars for a certain purpose. So Spry Step Up is something we originally started with. And I remember the days, it was about six years ago. It was definitely before COVID. And I remember the days, it was about six years ago. Where we had this idea to be able to engage our customer audience. And we would do a monthly step up session, which is helping our customers understand, you know, best practices and how they need to think about using CISPRO as a tool in their business. And we actually would do a physical event. We would do, they would come, we've got an auditorium in our offices. And they would come and we would have muffins and fruits and coffee there. And it really was nice to be able to connect to everyone. But I know it's five years later and I'm going to say this again, but COVID did change everything. And those in-person physical events really did well for us. And the customers attended and we had a good chat and we sat in the garden, you know, really connecting with the customer audience. But COVID changed everything because the customers still wanted that interaction with us. They still wanted to learn from us as a thought leader. And we didn't have that anymore. So we obviously had to shift with COVID. So our step up sessions have actually been running in the business monthly for the last seven years, at least. Doing really, really well. Then another session that we have, obviously we don't want to. We don't want to keep our customers too busy with too many webinars. So we've got to be able to plan a regular cadence on these things. So some things can be monthly, but if you have three webinars per month, you're going to lose the audience's attention because, you know, people are busy. We have work to do. We have businesses to run. So on latest product releases, very much a product focus. Obviously we sell software. Do our quarterly latest release launch with our customers on the latest product updates and any innovations to keep them up to date. And that's very, very targeted and kept to product specific. So we've got thought leadership, best practices, and then we've got product specific learning. And the third one that we do do, which is kind of public to partners, customers, and employees, is actually quite similar to this session. We call it a CISPR user group session. And I understand this webinar days is you guys are getting your customers to really showcase how they use 23 within their business. So similar concept. We just call it a user group where it is quite a longer, more in-depth session. It's a two hour session. And we get about six different customers to do a presentation of how they use 23 within their business. What CISPR has done for them and really be able to get that kind of connected community within our customer base so that our customers can learn from each other. So that's very much on them. We don't present with our product experts. A couple of the topics that, you know, we work on, obviously being in the manufacturing business, just some ideas. I won't go into too much detail on this. But, you know, mobile warehouse scanning is a solution that we offer. Low code, no code application design. So these kind of webinars, it's not so much for going in a demo, click here, click there, do this. It's more from a strategic perspective of how you use the low code, no code application design and the bigger thinking to be able to get our customers to think a lot more advanced on the use of their software. And I firmly believe the software is nothing without the user. Accounts payable, CAD link integration. So you can see that there are different focus points per webinar. And it really does run well. And our customers do enjoy attending these sessions. So that's really, really good. So how we use the data. Obviously, we need to find a way to be able to monetize the data that we've used to be able to get ROI on the investment of such a tool as 23 platform. And I touched on it earlier about being able to get the data out of HubSpot integration. And we've got a report built in HubSpot, which kind of gets sent out to all of our account managers every week. And the account managers really, really love it to be able to. I mean, each account manager, I think, has about 200 customers each. It's near impossible for one person to manage all of those accounts. So they have to be a little bit selective. And they love the marketing team because the marketing team does provide them these insights. And I know traditionally sales and marketing don't always align on these things. But we've managed to break through that barrier with having this kind of data. And we send that report out once a week on a Monday. And these account managers can go in and see exactly which customers are active. And they can plan their week and book meetings, pick up the phone and give them a call. And they say it really helps get them through the door to really target that top 10% of digitally engaged customers, rather than trying to sit there and cold call 50 customers a day to try and book a meeting. I think I've really covered all of my points in that chat. I think on-demand engagement is definitely also something that we bring into the report. Obviously, our customers are very busy. I feel it sometimes when I register for a webinar and I really, really want to attend, but something comes up. And someone books a meeting in my diary and I can't. But maybe on a Friday afternoon, I got sent the on-demand webinar and I'm able to book a meeting. So then go and watch it and really catch up on it. And our account managers do get those insights to be able to go in action for the week. So that's really from the customer side. You can go to the next slide. Okay, now I'm going to talk about our partners. So with our customers, we had the step-up webinars. We did brand the partner webinars, the top-up, because the content was always the same once a month between the top-up sessions and the step-up sessions. But why we split it out is because when you're doing the webinar sessions with the customers, you're talking about how you can use your CISPRO. What we're doing with the top-up sessions with our partners is explaining to them how they can enable their customers to use this solution. Same topic, different messaging, which enables us to split that. But that happened on a monthly cadence alongside the step-up. My favorite one is this tech talk. And I'm going to talk to you a little bit about how the tech talk came about. I was at a physical event, channel conference last year, and you have a chat to all your partners, and you have a couple of drinks, you have a tea, whatever you're going to do. A long time to chat to these people. And what I noticed, there was a common theme among our partners where they realized that they get this platform once a year, only once a year, to really speak to each other, to get this community engagement, this connected society within our channel. And they kept talking about the solutions that they sold for their customers with CISPRO, with each other. And what they found is a lot of the time, one of our partners would work for three months on solving a problem for a customer. And then they found that another customer, the other partner did the exact same thing for another customer. And then another partner had the exact same solution. So three partners that all spend three months each trying to figure out the same solution because they weren't talking to each other. So I came up with the idea to actually digitalize this and create the tech talk forum. And this tech talk forum really, it's for our partners to present. This has nothing to do with us. This is purely a forum platform for our partners. And every month, they log their sessions and they say, okay, I've done this solution. I want to present it to the channel network. Can I? So we've got about four different sessions, three or four different sessions per tech talk from each partner who presents their solution. And the kickoff of it was really incredible because, I mean, it has saved our channel partners a huge amount of time from working on problems that they didn't need to. They could have just shared their solutions with each other in the first place. And this tech talk forum has saved a lot of time for them to do that, of sharing what they have done and solutions they have built. And sometimes there's a little bit of extra ad hoc code. Going into the software. And then after that session, we actually have a forum where they can go and post their solutions and post the code. And all partners have access to test it in their business. And then obviously the same quarterly release. We do a product release for the customers and we do a product release for the channel. Same topic, different message. And they are also invited into the quarterly user group as well. So you'll see I won't go through the topics. The topics are pretty much the same thing as the step up. But how we use this data within our businesses. Every year at our channel conference, we have awards. And it's most sales or best solution. And there's a couple of awards. And this actually initiated a brand new award. The most digitally engaged. And what I can do every year over the course of the year is go into HubSpot, take a look at our partner contact data and give the information of who was our most digitally engaged partner and they get an award. So it created a whole new award strategy for us. And I'll tell you something, just that simple award really increased the channel webinar and video engagement. Overall by 20%. Because now all of our partners want to go on stage and win that award. So that's really how we use that. I think that's the most important part of our channel engagement. Yeah, you can go on to the next slide. Oh, my mouth's dry. I'm talking too much. How much time do I have? So our prospect audiences are a little bit different and a little bit less. This is a quarterly cadence and we do it by campaign. Reason why it's a quarterly cadence is we actually believe you shouldn't really run more than one campaign at a time. You shouldn't really run more than one campaign at a time to the marketplace because it confuses the audience a bit if you've got different messaging. You know, you don't want to be running a campaign on MRP and BOM and Cadlink and this all at the same time because you've only got a certain niche audience and it does confuse the messaging. So we do kind of keep it one campaign per quarter. And per campaign, we do run a webinar with us. And it's really, really good for lead generation. And I'll never forget the day we ran a CFO survey for the chief financial officers and, you know, how they use manufacturing software in their business. And that webinar was, the intention was education. It was never conversion. But that webinar, in the middle of the webinar, converted three new deals. And really, really surprising because the intention was never for conversion. It was just education. And I think this cements what I say when you teach people something, they'll remember your brand. If it's good enough, they will remember you and they will want to trust you as a solutions provider. So certain topics that we do run with our prospects, it's not buy now, get a free demo, very educational. So things like how to prevent ERP implementation failures. I think in the market, there's a very bad rep in the market because people can buy an ERP software, but the implementation completely, completely fails. So really to help our audience understand what strategies you need to follow. It's not just about buying our software. It's the after sales side of purchasing our software. Thought leadership on future proofing your factory. This is talking about smart manufacturing, internet of things, all the clever stuff, robotics and automation and digital twins. This is next level industry 4.0 thinking of the manufacturing sector. Risk governance and compliance is actually a critical topic within our audience that it's a funny thing because our customers, when they are manufacturing a product, they, if you're manufacturing food products, you've obviously got to follow certain compliance regulations with the FDA, et cetera, et cetera, in order to properly sell your products to the markets. Or we might have listeriosis go and make 300 people sick. And it's a critical requirement. And the manufacturing industry and funny story is they compliance audits. Our customers will not pass their compliance audits. Our software is not compliant. Manufacturing CFO. So I told you about that as well. Very, very difficult to get survey responses nowadays. I think there's a big survey fatigue happening in the world at the moment. And complex manufacturing outlook, talking about market intelligence and industry trends. It's a very similar topic to future proofing your factory and the future outlook of it. But this really was targeted and even more niche industry than food and beverage. It was those custom make to order businesses. And that's what complex manufacturing is about. Now, the data usage that we get from that really helps our lead qualification experts. Our experts. And straight after that, they're able to go in to the system and really see the engaged prospects. And I love digital and data very, very much. But I do firmly believe in the power of the human touch. I think never underestimate the power of the human touch. Know the difference of when to send an email and when to pick up the phone. And have a chat and have a good conversation. Because the fact of the matter is people do business with people. But people do business with people that they like. And lead conversions, pre-sales, digital footprint intelligence. That's exactly everything I pretty much talked about. So you can go into the next slide. As I touched on quite a bit earlier, I do think it's very important that we treat our employees as an audience on an on its own. So Spur has an employee count of 500 plus employees. And they come in with obviously latest release and product updates. It's the same thing as what the customers and partners do run. But it's a bit more of a frequent cadence than customers and partners. Obviously to keep our reps and our services guys up to date on the latest releases. We have a monthly town hall. Where our CEO, our CRO, and our CFO all are given the opportunity to share with us their new strategies. And yeah, if we've got very low engagement on any of these, I think it's a little bit of introspection for us as a company. Are our employees engaged? If they're not engaged, why are they not engaged? If they are engaged, we're doing a great job. And we're getting that employee advocacy out there because our employees are the most important part of the business. They are the people that speak to our customers. So we need to keep our employees happy. You can go into the next slide. I think I'm talking far too much now. So just a little touch point on the integrations and how I use the data that's available. One thing I can tell everyone is if you work in marketing data, get an API. What we're doing with omni-channel marketing and you've got a tech stack of 15 to 20 different platforms. There's LinkedIn, Facebook, social, YouTube. And it's almost impossible to really, it's so time consuming to go into every platform and have a look at the performance and the data points individually. When you have an API, an API is able to connect all of those 15 to 20 marketing platforms that you use. And it can consolidate all of that data into one place. So what we have in our marketing team, we have one dashboard, full funnel dashboard, which goes from our awareness efforts. And it's got all of the data that our team needs to use from awareness, conversion, duration through to pipeline information. And I think data governance in any business is very important. You need to have one place. One place only where the data is governed. You cannot report on Excel. You should never report on PowerPoint. You have it funneled through one place. So we've got 23 videos integrated into HubSpot. Datawarehouse.io is our data warehouse from HubSpot. My marketing data warehouse is, Windsor.ai, which brings in YouTube and LinkedIn and Facebook and all of these social accounts, as well as Google ads and stuff like that. Really, really good tool. And we bring that all into one, into Power BI to have our single source of the truth on the data. And this is, it's quite simple. All of our video and webinar data is on one tab in one place. We've got our customer success stories. Our demo video performance and our webinar performance all in one place. Yeah. And the nice thing about having the integration with 23 is we're able to see the engagement by audience type, by our customers, by our partners, by our prospects. And further down, we can go down into a deeper level of detail there by understanding the data points and the touch points by region, whether it's Africa, America, Australia, et cetera, just to see the geolocation audience targeting there, which is very powerful. And you can see the biggest parts of the pie charts over there is Africa. Purely because I, as Amelia says, I was the change maker and I brought 23 webinars and videos into the business. I previously worked in the Africa region only. I am now global lead. But that's purely because Africa region was using 23 webinars and videos first. And then I recently got the America's team region on board and then the APAC team on board. So we started with EMEA and then really scaled to have this, the global webinar business. Yeah. You can go to the next slide. So I think I did touch on it earlier. I love the webinar capabilities and the webinar strategies that we have. But one of my favorite parts is the fact that you can gate demo video content. We made a strategic decision when this came in. We do not gate eBooks, brochure downloads or studies. The only gate within our website is obviously a contact us, a request a demo, or if they watch a demo video. And we have a lot of stuff that we can do with that. So I'm going to go ahead and share the link for the demo video. I think you can go to the next slide. So I think I'm going to go ahead and share the link for the demo video. And I think that's really good. Yeah. I think I've touched on all of these points throughout my presentation, really. While I'm reading this, I obviously talked ahead of time a bit. But the interactive video feature is really, really good for us, where you can go and you can put a link into the demo video. And that links back to the website, I think, within our marketing structure. And I think that's really good. Yeah. 25%. I know it seems unbelievable, but the statistics are there. And what I always say is engagement rate is incredibly important. It's really hard to get to that 50% engagement rate. All the web experts here will know, I think anything above 50% is good. Anything 60% to 70% is great. 70% up is damn near perfect. And you can see the data slides over there. We're consistently sitting on 70% plus on the engaged sessions. But not only that, is that those videos are gated. And when we hand that lead over to the salesperson, they really enjoy it, where they can go into HubSpot and have a look at the video history. And they can actually see, okay, this customer watched BOM. They watched MRP. They watched customer relationship management. And they watched engineering change control. So let me bring that into my discovery discussion first, because that's what they were interested in. And I think with that said, thank you. That was amazing. I feel like I could listen to you forever, because it's so obvious that you're passionate about this, that you've had your hands deep in this project, and that you could tell the story in great detail. And I just think it's very interesting to hear that you were able to do so much. And congratulations with all the amazing things that you've built and that you've created in such a short time. Thanks, Amelia. A lot of fun. Really, really has to be able to use a new tool that is so incredibly powerful for more than one use case. Well, I'm sure we have to invite you to some workshops, some more playing around, just so you can explore if there are any new features or any new projects. Yeah. So actually, what we're doing is we only started off with two users from the Africa region. It was me and a colleague of mine having a lot of fun. But since we've scaled globally, we are doing a full team onboarding. We're now a global team of 12 users. So yes, from two to 12 is quite a big jump for the use of the tool. So I'm definitely very keen on getting a lot more onboarding on 23 videos and platforms with your team. Teos is really, really good at what he does. But as I say, the software is, the tool is nothing without the user. If you don't have the proper user adoption, you're not going to get the value out of the tool. I love that. I think that's a very good thing to keep in mind, especially when living in such a digital world. The tool is never better than the person who's using it. I'll keep that in mind. So I had one question for you that we can use to wrap up this session a little bit. There was... Hold on. I'll take this one. Okay. You got a couple of questions coming in. And we've unfortunately run out of time. So we don't have time to answer all of them. But... I'm going to turn all the answers into a little LinkedIn post so everyone in the audience can find them. But I wanted to hear from Sarah because this has obviously been a huge initiative that you've started that's shaped the entire organization. And she was asking which stakeholders from your company or from your team were the most important to get onboard when you were trying to implement webinars? And obviously, you've been the webinar changemaker. But I think a lot of passionate people sit with this frustration. So what was your success story here? I definitely get your frustration. And it's incredibly difficult to find speakers in the business. And obviously, we need to get a hold and build a good relationship with our product experts. I mean, us as marketing, we know marketing. We don't... I know a lot about CISPRO, but I don't know everything about CISPRO. We need our solutions experts and our product heads. And we actually really need to get their buy -in so they can see the value delivered. And no one wants to really present when you ask them. I do understand. It's very, very difficult to get their buy-in. And the one thing that genuinely worked was... the attribution to ROI on 23 webinars and videos. And they said, no, I said, but this is going to make us money. Look, look at the data. Look at the association to deals. Look how many leads this business brought in. This, if you want the business to make money, you need to help us present to the audience as well. And we need their brains. We need what's in their head from a solutions perspective. And you can imagine it's quite difficult within CISPRO. Because our sales guys, they're not just sales guys. These are engineers you're dealing with. And I think engineers are just next level intelligence there. And it's very, very hard to get their time. I think definitely work on building your relationship with those people. If they ask you for gifts as a marketing person from your store, give them a hundred power banks. Build that relationship and show them the value and the return on investment with the data. That 23 can provide the value of webinars, definitely. And I think that's such an interesting answer. Because I think most people would assume that a decision to increase your kind of MarTech stack would lie within the marketing team. But perhaps these people are already convinced they can see the value. So you actually have to spend a little bit more time on the opinions that are maybe a little bit harder to convince. Get those relationships going. You know, marketing is cross-functional role. And the one thing I always find, it's never anyone's job to help marketing. They don't have to. It is their job to hit their pipeline. And it is their job to, you know, support the customer and close so many tickets. It's no one's job to support marketing. Why do I need to do it? It's not my KPI. So that makes it incredibly difficult to do it. And that's why you've just got to be marketing. You've got to sell the solution internally as marketing. Exactly. And pitch it from their perspective so they see the value. I think that's a great point that you have to think of marketing as this cross-department team that touches and works with a lot of different teams and parts of the organization. And yeah, that it's also a two-way street. You know, if marketing works for them, then yeah, if we're going to get you those leads, if we're going to get you that customer engagement, then you also need to participate. Participate in the webinars. Get those experts on screen. Exactly. But don't even get me started on IT. They, I think, honestly, are in 51% stakeholding because they are the ones who get to tell me if I can use it or not. I think they hold majority stakeholder because without their acceptance on the tool, I'm not getting video and webinar tools. They're the ultimate decision maker in the end. The ultimate decision maker. Thank you so much, Kelly, for taking the time to join us today and to share your incredible insights, your learnings. And can I just say what an incredible journey you've been on? I'm so astonished by everything you've been able to pull off in such a short time span. So I cannot wait to see where this journey takes you and takes CISPRO. So congratulations so much on your wonderful webinar strategy. Thank you so much for your time today. Thank you for listening to me. I think I'm going to close off and I'm going to go and have a nice glass of wine. That sounds like a good plan. Close off the day. Enjoy your glass of wine. And I'm going to wrap up here and say goodbye to our lovely audience that has been participating and engaging and asking lots of interesting questions. Thank you so much, everyone, to everyone who's been engaging, reacting. It does really make a difference when you're on this side of the screen to be able to interact a little bit with all of you guys. So thank you for that. I would love to hear your feedback. As I said, this is the sixth edition of Webinar Days we're running and we make it for you, to you, to help you. So I would love to hear your feedback. What do you think about webinars? What do you think about the webinar days 2025? There will be an action card so you can take a couple of minutes to reflect on the past three days and let us know, yeah, what your opinion is. We would appreciate that greatly. And if you still want to take part of the state of webinar survey, you can also do so. As Stefan mentioned, we are launching the official report in January. So there will be a little bit of time to a little bit of a window to still get the last survey respondents in before we wrap the report with the final data. And last but not least, I have to bring it up again. If you think this is your corner of the internet, if you are inspired by video, if you work with video and webinars on a day-to-day basis and you want to learn more about what's happening on the forefront of video marketing and webinars, you have to attend the 23 Summit. So if you want to take a little highlight clip or pass a link in the chat, you can already now sign up to get notified about the 23 Summit 2026. And yes, it will be the best 23 Summit yet. So I'm very excited. Thank you to all of our wonderful speakers for contributing with your insights and learnings. Thank you for the participants for taking the time out of your busy days to be here with us. And thank you for everyone who has engaged and interact on social media, on external platforms. We see you, we hear you, and we appreciate you a lot. Until next time, I can't wait to webinar days 2026. And until then, I will just see you soon. So enjoy all the content as you get it on demand and feel free to share it with a colleague or a team member. And then I'll see you next year. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.