Around the Table: VideoAgencyDay Lounge

Hello everyone and welcome back to VideoAgencyDay, the second edition. This is the world's first conference on the video agency. The second year in a row that we're hosting it and I think we've had an incredible journey from announcing the video agency model and defining that, defining the video agency and reflecting on what the video agency actually is. To this year where we're really diving into how to build one and how to develop your business to become a video agency. And I can't believe we're already at the tail end of today, but we have one more session in store for you. And I think this is going to be a special session and you might want to still keep your pen and your notepad out because we've made it together to the last session of the day. And we've invited all of the speakers that have participated throughout the sessions today to join us in kind of a open conversation to really reflect on what we've learned today, the takeaways, but also reflect on the current state of the video agency, what this means for the category and the key ideas that the speakers believe will shape the industry moving forward. So I think this is a very good opportunity to get some golden nuggets. So listen carefully as we dive into this together. To help facilitate the conversation, we have Dan Duffett, head of client strategy and Tor Thompson, head of partnerships here at TwentyThree. So please welcome Tor and Dan to the screen and we will see if they are ready to go on screen. Yes, you guys look amazing. Well, I am handing you the digital mic. So the screen is all yours and take it away. So just to reiterate, I'm Dan, Head of client strategy here at TwentyThree, and we'll be kind of co-hosting with Thor this session. So I'm going to let Thor introduce himself and then we'll probably go into a couple of questions pretty fast. Yeah. Thank you very much, Dan. And thank you for an amazing day. I think it's been really interesting to hear a lot of insights for such a group of agency leaders. As Dan said, my name is Thor. I'm a head of partnerships at TwentyThree and I've been building partner ecosystems here for a long time now, but it's always interesting to hear a lot of new ideas and being part of creating something new that will hopefully benefit us all. With that being said, I think what I'd really like to hear from some of the amazing agency leaders we have here today is some of your insights on what the key takeaways from today should be. What would you continue to work on? What did you learn and what did you think would bring particular value moving forward? Oh, Tappy, I can see a right smile on your face there. What are some of your thoughts, my friend? Yeah, I see my face in there. Should I start now? Okay. I can. Okay. Okay. Well, I can take one key insight or takeaway. Actually, we had this video agents day last week in Copenhagen. And I think one thing, which I can see myself for some reason, but one thing that I can see myself twice, I guess it's through someone's microphone. Anyway, it was this thing of ownership. So I guess most of the video agencies or video production companies have this project, the thing that it's mostly projects they are working on and everyone is after recurring revenue. And the one insight we found out is that the ownership is the thing that you have to be able to take ownership of something. And I think the reason why it's having recurring revenue is easier for social agencies is that they usually take ownership of social channels. So I think, and for example, for some TikTok companies, it's easier for them to have this thing because they take ownership of TikTok channel, Instagram channel. So I think for video agency to get the recurring revenue, you have to be able to take ownership of something. Maybe it's video podcast series, maybe it's webinars, maybe it's some digital channel or something. You have to be able to take whole ownership from planning to production to measurement to everything to actually to be able to get recurring revenue. That's one key takeaway. I really like that, Sabio. And I think that makes a lot of sense because obviously when you take ownership, it's easier to prove that you add value for your client that you work with. Now, if you wanted to convince your existing video client to allow you to take ownership of a new field, do you have any good tips on how you would go about it? If I were starting right now, you mean? I think at least here in Finland, I think video agencies or video companies who are growing are mostly like social first companies who are mainly creating short form videos to TikTok or Instagram. But I think there's also like video podcasts and webinars could be a good route, especially for B2B companies. That could be like one area where you can take the whole ownership. So I would say short form or video podcasts, webinar. I think video podcasts and webinars could work as a combo for B2B companies. Nick. Hi. Hi. I just thought what Sabio was saying is absolutely vital. And I think with that ownership, there's a part of this owning the whole, sorry, got completely struck in my train of thought there. But there's this holistic approach that I think everybody showed in both the first session and then that second session there. Owning the whole process for clients and to convince people to sort of jump onto that, I think, and to convince people to trust you with sort of going past just doing video production instead of owning the whole process from strategy to then implementation and analysis of everything. I think there's this sort of, what am I trying to say? There's this kind of, there is effectively sort of almost a social proof that you need to demonstrate to a lot of companies. A lot of companies are sort of scared to dip their toes in the water almost. And I think it's not just social proof for what you can do, but social proof for these companies to illustrate to them how their industries are changing and sort of almost speaking the language of their business, if that makes sense. And sorry, I'm rambling a bit, but I think a lot of the people in the video industry just speak video and don't speak corporate and don't speak the language of business necessarily in a way the clients understand. I think it would be key for everyone in the agency world to take a little bit more time to step back and speak the language of the business that your clients or potential clients are in to help them buy into what you're selling, essentially. Sorry, I was rambling. No, I mean, hey, Nick, no, I think you make a very good point. I think John certainly tapped on that a little bit earlier to a degree. And I think, Michelle, I'd be fascinated to get a little bit of a steer from you as to whether there were particular things that an agency did that demonstrated that ability and things that you kind of saw, OK, this business is talking my business. Because I think, as Nick says, being able to kind of speak the marketing talk does give huge credibility to you as a video agency. But did you see that with the partners that you work with from the very start? Or was it something that evolved and you helped them kind of get there? I would say that I think there are two modes that agencies it's really, really helpful if you speak. One is absolutely the marketing speak. So knowing how to measure ROI, what stage are we at of the buyer journey, of the kind of brand awareness journey, that will help you with the marketing teams that you're selling to. But in terms of the talent, in my case, as at a law firm, the partners in the room, especially at the beginning of the video journey, they were so nervous. So for them to have these producers come into the room who had studied them, studied their careers, had a good look at the topic and the subject matter, and were able to confidently guide them and say, hey, I think we're going really technical here. I think there's maybe an angle on this part of the lens or take a very difficult topic like blockchain or AI or something like that. They were coaching us as marketers and they were coaching the partners of this global law firm on actually for your client base. I think the topic could be framed this way. So I think being able to do both makes you hugely valuable in the room. Yeah, no, that's a fascinating take, actually, in terms of there's almost like a bridge, which is you demonstrate your expertise in your particular area and just show, OK, I'm the real deal. I get this. I can do this. And then it allows you, gives you permission to say, because you're trusted at that juncture, to then be able to open up that discussion into certain different fields and then start to bridge that. That's maybe that strategic piece. Once you started in the kind of core center of this is what I do. I know it well. You've got the confidence and then you can start to build out from there. Yeah, absolutely. And I think there was also a piece about and this is maybe specific to possibly professional services people, but the producers in the agency, the directors in the agency, they framed it in such a delicate way. They weren't coming to the partners saying, hey, I'm the expert here and this is how you need to frame it. They would pose things as a question. They would approach it in a very curious, down to earth way. And I think that landed perfectly. But they wouldn't have been able to ask those questions. In that powerful way without having done their diligence and really opened up and kind of made an effort to understand the topic. So I think they were wearing a lot of different hats in that room at any one time. It was very impressive. Fascinating. Yeah. No, go ahead. And I was going to say, I think and Lev and John, I'd be interested to pick up on some perspectives from you on this, because I'm particularly John, maybe start with you, because I know last week we actually talked a little bit about, you know, the kind of the people in your kind of in your in your group at the moment and some of the talents that you have there and how you finding they are adapting to the kind of the briefs and the engagement that Michelle has described and the kind of versatility and the agility that they have. Well, I think Michelle nailed it there when she said wearing a lot of hats. I mean, that's it seems every six months there's another hat that a video production has to wear. And then someone invents a whole new social strategy. You know, there's a new social media channel and we have to wear that hat as well. But to your point, Dan, I think. There's only so many things that we as filmmakers can learn. So I think you have to make sure that you're expanding your team. So guessing 20 year olds do the tick tock alongside your 50 year old filmmakers that know how to do a story. I think that the beauty of a really strong company is their skills in depth. So everyone's everyone's opinions are valid. I was on a shoot last week, the 23 year old, and she was so much better than I ever could have done in that particular thing because you just need a blend of skills. So I think some people change, some people don't. But, you know, you just don't be afraid to bolt those new skills into the team, I think, is the is the thing I've learned, because I'm an old dog with old tricks and you need new people. I do ask a similar question to Lev, but without the insinuation of you being an old dog, you're finding that kind of. I would never admit to that. That's John. Yeah, look, I think I think it comes down. You said earlier, you build that trust. And I think it comes down to trust ultimately, because the way I see it is. You know, we come from the strategic side, from the kind of the marketing think and speak side. And of course, we've got the creative side with that. But our DNA is in the sort of marketing side. And, you know, we always say because we come from the webinar side and there's a lot of performance metrics and so on, much easier to access than on video. We always say we hold ourselves accountable. We will show you the results that we deliver on your behalf with these webinar programs. And we want you to hold us accountable as well. And that immediately builds a level of trust. OK, yeah, I'll do that. And, you know, you'll you'll you'll you'll explain the performance of these programs. And, you know, that's not to kind of shift blame or say you're responsible for these. You know, everybody's involved at the same time, but it builds a level of trust. And I think what we what we've seen certainly over the last. And I think there's John and Nick, somebody mentioned earlier about, you know, that that that trend towards in-housing with video stuff over these last year and a half, two years. We're incredibly tough in certain industries and sectors. So you're working with people who are marketers who have in-house video production. And are trying to find their way through kit and apps and AI and everything to try and make it work. But that's not their job. Yes, they have to pick it up, but they that's not their core skill. So we have to create even more trust by advising them, being advisors to them and say, not be scared to say, oh, well, you're going to take my job. So I'm not going to tell you how to do it. But rather the other way around and say, well, this is how you do it, because there's more value. Hopefully you can add on top of that as well. So that's a good way to do well with the tools they've been given by the company, which you can't get around. Then they will succeed. They will trust you more. And actually for the stuff that then they can't do or they haven't got the time or the expertise, they will then come back to you and say, well, first of all, you've told me to hold you accountable on the performance. And also, you know, I know that, you know, more stuff than I do. So can you please help me with this additional project or these additional parts to the to the work that we do? So that building that trust is really important and supporting your your client ultimately. Yeah, I love what you say there, Lev. And actually just where I before I was here, actually, one thing that we noticed with our kind of scopes of work in a, I guess, a digital marketing agency actually was clients progressively moving from can you build this for me to can we build this together? Which was this interesting kind of shift in the way some of our briefs were evolving. And, you know, we there was a resistance to degree because it's like, well, we were doing it all. But actually, it's a much more mature, trusting environment where it's like, no, OK, you have some core capabilities that you want to grow and you want to evolve. And we are there as your partners and trusted partners in order to help you do that. And but Felicity, I'd love to just tap in on on a couple of the areas that you're in, because I think the kind of that you lean very, very much into the creativity. And so how have you found some of those conversations evolving? And it feels like that's an area which I think you can talk about. There's enablement, which is, you know, there's a there's a skill set that can I'm going to probably generalize grossly here. But but, you know, you can you know, you can partner and they can learn to a degree. The strategic side can somewhat be covered off by marketing. And what my hands here are my model, by the way, my my my three circles, the enablement at the bottom and the strategy here. There are elements that I think a client can to a degree get a get a bit of a handle on. But the kind of creative consultancy piece is a little bit more kind of tricky territory. And how have you found kind of engaging on that level? With your part with your clients? Yeah, thanks, man. I think I think I mean, I think collaboration is the kind of thing we're kind of everybody's doing the whole the whole time. But I think it is trying for us. It's been it's I mean, it depends on the client. But I think for us, it's been, again, building trust and strong relationships. And in the beginning, it's often just Anna and I going and doing that kind of senior level kind of like the old dogs, at least, as you say, John, going in and kind of just just just working very closely with either the marketing department or the specific people within the organization that are having need a problem to be solved around their communication. And then building slowly from that point and really trying to understand what they need, where the gaps are. And then, you know, if it's in the case of kind of. Well, I mean, I should imagine, Michelle, in the kind of professional services that you're working in. I mean, we're spending quite a lot of time in the world of academia and scientists at the moment. And that is it is honestly it's a it's a new territory for us. And it's so interesting. And we I think, you know, what we what we bring and what an agency that's an outside agency can bring. Yeah, um. something like that. I mean, I've seen here and there and like maybe right now um rather than where they're coming from which is kind of operating in in the silos of their own kind of academic world and they're struggling to really reach beyond that so yeah i think um basically uh starting small and then scaling as you as the you know as the relationship develops and does the need to become um more apparent to everybody that's that's how we try to try to work and we scale up depending on you know we like to kind of be remain nimble and flexible and then basically scale up um depending on you know what the project or long-term partnership requires brilliant um i'm pleased you touched on that point about scale actually because it's something that i guess i touched on to degree and it was one of the questions um in the session that the i had earlier about you know what size can a video agency be um and i think that was it was very open -ended question from small all the way to large and um i'd be very interesting from from the panel to get a perspective on how they have looked to grow and scale and what obstacles they might have faced um um but equally what tailwinds have helped them uh move uh to to scale um and um anyone feel free to start on and answer that one i won't i won't pinpoint anyone um but if anyone's got any thoughts on on that scale piece i think it'd be fascinating to to dig into it a little bit more john right i lost my cursor um okay we will we have been much bigger than we are at the moment and and i think there is a thing about scale scale scale um and it's scaling at the right time and i think if you're scaling on project work it's a very dangerous business um i think if what's helped us if you're talking about tailwinds is the move to social the move to doing paid media the move to doing gso and anything which is monthly right that's how you scale so you're hitting 60 70 percent of your turnover with retainers whereas if you're like you know we hit 20 30 people at one point all on projects and it's just a petrifying roller coaster constantly so yeah like retainers is the way to scale and i'd be very scared to do it again without uh retainers in place that's my that's good here tapio yeah i was about this scaling thing is i think there's a reason why you don't usually see creative agencies going bigger than 20 30 people and i guess there are a couple of things of course other other parties is the cost effectiveness because when you grow bigger than 30 people you need some mid managers etc so you have to scale much bigger to actually to be able to pay their bills and another thing is i think is this is this is video industry is passion industry at least i think so so actually when you buy video you you often buy someone's passion and i think it's very hard to scale passion because when you become more corporate and bigger you usually lose some passion that's my perspective yeah i i i i i think it's a fascinating point um yeah passion is is it is classically quite hard to scale i mean i think that's where as best you can systems and operating models have to come in to to try and ensure that you have scale where you don't have the passion maybe i would i would would be my suggestion uh i think passion is uh the best motivator for everybody yeah actually no you touched an interesting point there which um when we actually in the session earlier we'll finish on um on the how to make the video agency one thing we in the questions we answered was what you you actually got to find a couple of allies um to start with you so if you're a brilliant creative that's superb but but you might need someone who's a rainmaker or you might need someone who's in finance and to find your allies or your you know your partners there so that you've got the passion for and our operations as well so you've got so your passion is that and then that can you can double down as the as the ops you know lead yeah uh and and push that and and love that as much as the creator loves the creatives and as much as the finance of the finance yeah and maybe that's how that that can that can unfold but i think it's a really good point uh passion drives everything sorry leff i thought i think i saw you raise your hand before me and dan started talking no no it's um i mean tapio covered some of it from a certain point obviously it becomes harder to scale because you need to put more structure in place but i think i mean we we intentionally didn't put a focus on scale because it is it is hard to scale as john said based on project work alone but if you look back at the last five years um it's been a minefield you know first first you know for video and live streaming it goes up like this through cover then it drops down now we're into sort of in housing and and you know budget struggles so really anybody in recent history talking about last five years who talked about anything about scaling the jury's still out there is there's no way to measure whether that's worked out or not um and you know five years in in tech and video is i mean which version of iphone was around back then but you know it's it's a it's a massive massive time span so it's really hard that scaling um conversation and and we have to start afresh now um and we don't know what headwinds are coming ahead now so it's it's it's incredibly tough and that's why we took the decision not to scale at all cost or try and kind of force that scale because it's just too it's it's ad hoc as we need it um but but structural scale beyond a certain stage is going to be really dangerous for this for this industry i'd like to listen can i just come in on that point though around the around around the the ad hoc nature of scaling up for you know your projects or whatever deliveries that you're giving specific time i mean i think that is also a reflection on the industry which we and i think as a kind of i mean it's not the forum for now necessarily but it is something to think about for new people coming into the industry you know it's difficult for people to you know be freelancing the whole time and just i think that as you know we when we're running our agencies to think about the talent that we rely on all the time to create great work giving back to them and kind of making the whole you know making this feel the video agency world that we're working in more sustainable for them i think is is something to consider and i know it's been ever that it has been such a problem for the last 20 years even it's it's i totally agree it's tough and you know you look at you know three four years ago um you could find video freelancers quite easily and i think the the the economic situation has forced them either into a business or into an entirely different you know change of career because it's been hard to sustain and those who've done it really well of you know are no longer available as freelancers they probably built a small agency so it's kind of decimated that space um and made it even harder for those agencies who are still going to and trying to try to use that model yeah 100 and um yeah i i think some very very true and slightly tough points that you made there and um michelle from from from your perspective i'd be fascinated just to kind of hear what scale or the or even the head count of the agency means to a business from you know looking to to engage with them i mean obviously there's the kind of procurement pieces which i guess to leave to one side but almost from a kind of engagement and brand perspective and and um capabilities how do how how do you kind of review and interpret an agency that comes to your door yeah that's a good question i think there are different layers to it um i mean in the 12 plus years that i've been producing various levels of um kind of video campaigns i don't think i've ever worked with an agency that was more than about five people um so yeah we've very much tended to kind of um get it right have the the the core capabilities there know the chemistry is right that the end product is going to be really good um and then just rinse and repeat so that was certainly true for the um broadcast kind of higher production level work that we we did way back when um and then when we were looking to just scale up the um the volume of what we could produce we also just tended to stick with um these kind of one man band ish type of um agencies who had a particular skill set that we needed to access at that time so when it came to you know um upskilling the marketing team at various team away days we would look to people who could kind of do it all because we were able to advise and really upskill people when it came to building a london studio john was the go-to because we had no idea how to do that so um and then likewise when it came to producing um sorry procuring um more of retainer support which was specifically for editing just to keep things kind of ticking over we also went with um a long sort of a very very small agency that we had a long relationship with because that trust was there um that's a really difficult thing because you have to know as a as a client like this person's going to be there when i need them at short notice they'll know my brand they'll know that they'll know the stakeholders and so on um and that has just always been a yeah a small very small agencies and in the new business that i'm in in ojia it's similar again um uh small small agency support um referred to the firm just through relationships um and that model is is working well there as well so um yeah we've just never we've scaled our own um video needs internally by building in tiers and seeking out people who who were the right level for us rather than ever seeking out this one big agency to to rule them all um it's just never never quite worked so yeah smaller and nimble has been has been always best from my perspective i've got to send me that from a community perspective i think that's great to hear the kind of support that has been intrinsic to the way you think and the businesses you've been with have thought and i think that's um i think a hugely uh encouraging and positive to hear is an industry that i think we want to see grow and and and effectively be nurtured as well i think that's the role that you also play in all of this is nurturing them and bringing them along and just seeing where they fit into the ecosystem it's really interesting to also to hear the insights from from obviously the people who are working with all the wonderful agencies we're talking about listening i i think uh we're being told yeah we're running out of time here we have some questions in the panel yeah so let's uh let's run through a couple of questions and uh so i'll i'll read this one out here so great presentation everyone well done uh thank you very much for those transitioning from a production company to a video agency what does the minimum team setup look like which key roles need to be in place from the very beginning for example a video producer a digital strategist a performance marketer and so on so i hope you all heard that if you want me to repeat it i i'm happy to but if not um then um any of you please fire away and um give us your thoughts john i try not to be first on this one because i can rant about it so much i don't think it's about the first person i think it's about the first skill set get some marketing books i'm sorry to be really boring i rant about it all the time get some basic marketing bags get byron get get the ipa law on the short of it read some other classic marketing literature start talking it's not a person it's it's a skill set and then when you've got that you'll be able to talk the talk and then you can get a media buyer then you can get a strategist although i'd put that right down the end um but your own skills have to get better so you're in when you're in meetings and pitches you sound like you know what you're talking about and i add to that i think john you're spot on 100 what i would say is for people who are looking at specific industries working with specific industries i work a ton with defense at the moment i've worked a ton with food two completely different industries and what i've done is i've either made sure i've got the skills but also if i can't i've made sure i've got somebody on the team or somebody can work with who knows those industries relatively relatively well because they're so specific and you've got to be able to talk the language of the people you want to work with otherwise you won't be able to climb that ladder and you won't be able to progress through it and i think that's a big mistake people make they stick to just i know everything about video i'll wow you with that but i can't talk about what you do and that's a big thing i see a lot of people do i missed a classic opportunity to punt my book out there i should just read my book but i do apologize video marketing tell us about your book john no it's fine translated into how many languages i struggled with to come up with an answer initially but when john and nick spoke um i realized why because well except for maybe tapio who's seems to be selling businesses left right and center but um i don't think any of us are serious agency founder entrepreneurs who kind of exit all the time and start new ones so i think we can only talk from our own experience um of the agency that we founded and you know i think what nick and john said is it applies to me as well i came from a background in in tech and marketing i knew to speak that language and and that's what it was built around and then you know after a year or so andy who's uh sort of head of tech joined me and and you know he had the the additional tech skills um and we built it from there and then we we backfilled as we needed um but it's really hard to be intentional about it unless you really know which direction you're going who your clients are going to be what their requirements are um you have to build it based on what you know find business and then and then build it out from there and i had a little bit of the thing i just realized the bit i messed up at the very beginning i know all about video i'm decent enough with marketing where i messed up was the business side of things i didn't know what i needed to do for accounting i didn't know how to pay people properly i got into trouble with tax at the beginning it was awful so if you've got someone who has business skills that's massive because i i nearly got myself into big trouble with uh his majesty's government um and so yeah i'd advise you have someone who has a business brain yeah i i i can i i think in that that's something that we we kind of hear consistently actually um because so often we hear about agencies starting from a creative skill set uh and totally understandable and it's kind of i mean it's totally understandable because if you've got a financial skill set would you start a video agency maybe not but if you had a great buddy or old customer or client who you worked very well with and you just thought actually we could do this together then that might happen um so i um i can understand how that can certainly uh i think unravel some great values in uh knowing your own strength and weaknesses and obviously learning from your mistakes we all make mistakes and that's great uh maybe let's try not to repeat them and learn from them but it's a part of living and trying is making mistakes right yeah so we become better yeah so let's move on to um another question um uh i think it's the same person actually they've had a follow-up question well that's incredibly cheeky but okay here we go um when looking for a co-founder to support the transition into a video agency which core traits or qualities do you consider most important to look out for in the other person well i think we might have covered some of those but but i mean hey but felicity what would you i mean you you have a co-founder um how did you two meet perhaps and then how would you answer that question if you two had not have met i mean yeah i think we have different skill sets that are quite complementary i mean we met in all honesty um when i first moved to stockholm in 2017 and anna needed a producer to produce 25 films for ikea and she was basically in a panic stations so she just uh so i sort of came in yeah she's like oh i've got this so uh so yeah we and then and then we never looked back so we've been working together ever since we just got on really well and um i mean she has um uh she has that kind of marketing um you know executive mba stuff behind her so she has um i'd say you know the perhaps the business acumen i mean i think we both have because we're both producers but um she yeah she definitely she definitely um has that kind of experience um and i guess from my perspective um anna's a great you know we we we bring different networks to the table i think that's been our kind of unique thing so i've brought my kind of uk network to her and vice versa her nordic network has has has reached me as well so that's been really nice to expand both of our our worlds in that respect um to to reframe the question slightly um earlier michelle you talked about actually trust and so you know that isn't a title it's just what you as a person do so i mean there's also an element to that and and i i wonder in the kind of the interactions you've had michelle when you've kind of been you know hiring a company whether the title has actually mattered to us you've just been more the trust i mean obviously there's got to be trust in the capabilities but what what you've seen there is and what's come across has it been well cv you've got this this and this so it's just like you your your real shows you're good and and actually from an emotional perspective i trust in buying to you yeah i think that's a really good question i think there are kind of two fundamentals and it doesn't really matter in a way what the skill set is um we when selecting the agency you know way back when next shoot were the ones who truly listened to that brief and they came in without ego they walked us through exactly point by point what we had requested how they would specifically address it and then they took it further whereas the others we spoke to um it felt like it was a formula it felt like it was a template that didn't quite address our needs so i think them truly listening to us and doing exactly what we'd asked for and then surprising and delighting us um and doing so being you know very softly spoken extremely competent it really did build that trust even just from that first proposal and you know walking in with them to these multi-day shoots with those busy partners and owners of the business that was key for us we needed to know these guys aren't going to embarrass us they are going to have researched the topic they will be able to add value to the lawyers they'll be able to add value to us as the in-house marketing team um and yes they were incredibly good with just the technical stuff so like we knew the sound levels would be on point we knew that if anything needed to stop for a technical reason they would do it and they would handle it incredibly diplomatically so it was yeah it just so much of it came down to the chemistry the way they sold themselves being so understated but knowledgeable at the same time um and yeah you are going to spend as an in-house as a client you're going to spend a lot of time with people that you partner with on on video so you have to have that that confidence and that chemistry there so i would say that's it's almost like the skill set followed after that we had to know we liked them and we trusted them to even invite them into the room for the next stage so yeah i think they're key i guess that's people by people by people effectively yeah yeah and it's also a great platform when you have that confidence and trust to move the relationship further down the line right and start the more strategic work that a lot of you've mentioned with your long-term clients it's really interesting yeah and good to hear yeah so we are we are running a bit at times so we've got another one here um so regarding internal stakeholder management who is your strongest champion and who do you need to oh this is a great question now let's start that again i'm liking it already regarding internal stakeholder management who is your strongest champion and who do you need to bring on board what else is yeah yeah um yeah i don't know uh anybody who wants to uh go first here or voice an opinion i mean i'm happy to share sort of a from a client side perspective um and specifically in my case being three months into a new role um in a business that i'm in it's 1200 employees um it's the board rules everything so it's going to depend who you're pitching to and where they're at in their journey but for me as head of digital marketing my internal stakeholders are my boss who's c-suite and the board and you don't get to a point where you get to make an investment in something as potentially costly as video without the c-suite buy-in and without board buy-in and i would say more and more they need to have not just data in terms of like we had this many views and impressions it's how much business did that win how many conversions did you get it's not this top of funnel stuff anymore it's very contextualized data very commercially focused um so from my perspective i would say those two c-suite and board and be commercial um i'll just follow that if that's okay we're literally working with someone in exactly that way at the moment where they need to convince the the board that they need to spend money on advertising so you know in the idea was let's spend 10 grand on a brand film with nothing to back it up and it's like now we're going in with a presentation about excess share of voice how you do proxies for share of voice all these things so that the the the person has got the the firepower to go in and that's what we as an agency are here to do so support them to get the budget they need to do what they're actually trying to get done and i add to that as well john um i think that's a fantastic point um but there's somebody who's worked in-house at very large companies as well one of the people i needed to convince when i needed budget for anything if we were making promotional videos at apple for example i needed to convince procurement people and it really helped to have agencies on board before i even went to them um because i was able to sort of get them to help me put a pitch together and really make sure everything would be cost effective and make sense for that business and then i see now as somebody on the agency side that being able to pitch that to clients and we know the people in procurement who then will actually be even be able to veto um in some situations somebody who's much more senior than them is massive um so procurement mindset at least can be really important to consider really interesting also to hear about the commercial aspect is it something you normally follow up with your clients after your initial projects with them or on your more long-term projects so you know what commercial impact your work has had on the the work you did for them we always do a massive debrief i always make sure we build that into our initial plan that we're going to talk about that but they they can give me feedback and say look you messed up you spent way too much money you cost us too much or like this is fantastic we've saved so much money and really get the financials not just from again the marketing department but then any feedback we can get from somebody like that who's in procurement as well and i build that into the process as much as i can it's so critical and i think the underlying point here is just i mean this might sound like i'm quite old but there was a point when you know you sold you you sold work uh into businesses and data was was an important data would come you know with tracking of some some some description and admittedly that you know to degree that's you know more commercial the commercial world but the the importance of data at every step of the way for every piece of engagement uh is critical now and quite rightly so we have access to data there are platforms there are sets such TwentyThree which offers you that yeah uh and and and it builds your arguments and you can tell those stories you can you can and you and i think telling those stories actually part of the video agency's job is to understand okay this is where conversion works at different parts of the funnel um and these are the insights and where the business impact can come from from the work that is being done i think um one of the things i i spoke about at the um at the summit earlier this summer um you know we had this conversation the other day with a client who was talking about um webinars they want to run as part of the webinar program and they've got you know four different lines of business and you know they break the years into quarters and and campaigns in the quarters and look at okay so we need to run approximately x number of webinars we flipped that narrative around and said what is your marketing target what's your goal um and you know and then work back based on conversion rates and we love conversion rates work it back all the way to say okay so this is your target what percentage is from from webinar contribution okay great so what's your average deal size what's your average um sales cycle length how many how many you know what's your conversion rate of you know sqls to opportunities um close rate of opportunity and you work your way all the way back to webinar registrants and have all the conversion rates alongside that and then say right okay so your actual number that you'll need to get this target is x number of webinars it's not starting the other way around so you actually work back from the results or from the target and that gives you a clear number now whether that number is achievable is another question but then you might have to look at the how realistic the target is and that's not necessarily an easy conversation but it gives you a more scientific way of looking at it i completely agree with you lev and one of my observations coming into a new business um has been that if you have a professional services business like a partnership that's on a smaller scale chances are it's going to be a bit more partner-led and what that can result in is these very unstrategic requests of i want to do x and i want you to help me do y and you might have a junior marketer who's tasked with making that happen and the more that you um you know agency side can coach the person coming to you with those questions that's enabling them to have a much more strategic um conversation with their internal stakeholders that is very much welcomed but i think you know don't underestimate how much people have great ideas without necessarily the most commercial mindset about it so that's been very powerful so far again in an in a new role that's less mature with its digital strategy and video strategy um it's been a bit eye-opening for people i bet i bet um now we are just three minutes out i think and i know a media will will want to wrap up today's proceedings so with that i i think i'm gonna have to say a huge thank you to our fantastic uh speakers and panelists uh so felicity lev john tapio nick and michelle thank you so much uh for not only the presentations that you shared today but also the brilliant insight and conversations and discussion that we've just had in the last hour it's been a genuine pleasure to to share it here with tour and to talk it all through and to hear what you've all had to say so thank you so much for making our from our perspective today a tremendous success and on that i think we might bid you a farewell and hand over to another room with the media thank you very much for today and if there is any unanswered questions left we will make sure to get them answered on email or chat afterwards for the audience thank you thank you so much and thank you to tor and dan for uh leading the conversation and making sure that uh everyone got a little bit of a stage time uh you did do a part of my job which is thanking all the speakers that have been part of participating today so i just want to echo that um also the speakers that have been on earlier today uh and not necessarily part of the panel thank you for your contributions thank you for taking uh the time to be curious and to learn and uh thank you so much for uh all your engagement and being part of the conversation um in the chat i know that it's uh encouraging it really motivates uh the speakers and just like that uh the second edition of video agency day has uh come to an end but i figured we could take a little look at um the program that we've been through for today um as you may recall if you've been with us from uh 2 p.m this morning we had a keynote on the video agency with uh thomas and dan really helped set the scene and kind of explain a little bit about the foundation that we're going to be discussing and the rise of the video agency as a category as well as how we can start to you know develop these uh these video agencies then we had a very energetic and dynamic showcasing session with where we got to meet some of the leading video agencies in the world um this was very interesting for me to be able to see so many different um agency leaders who are extremely passionate in the field and are so knowledgeable about their services and and their competencies um after that we welcomed uh two master classes one uh where we really dove into the company perspective what is the company looking for when uh seeking to work with a video agency and how to kind of scale this relationship uh then we had another great um kind of master class uh type session with uh tapio where he gave us the story of how he built a successful video agency out of finland and as you all know the video agency day lounge uh that wrapped up uh here just now where all the speakers i got to share some of their insights uh from today reflect a little bit on the learnings um and i hope you really enjoyed i hope you have some notes uh on a on an ipad or an actual iphone or a laptop uh or anything else that you've posted uh somewhere and that you felt that this was the um uh the education that you needed to really help uh build the strategy for your agency and your business going into 2026 uh remember if you missed any of the sessions today uh they will all be available on demand and i do want to encourage you to uh share the sessions with any of your colleagues your peers and i hope that you can benefit uh from some of the learnings today uh i'm sure they would be very happy if you um sent them the on-demand version i also want to encourage you to um connect with our speakers and connect with the audience together we can really build a video community and learn from each other and if you haven't already checked out the summit uh which has been mentioned in this um in this session they are referring to the one and only TwentyThree summit happening on may 28th and may 29th you can learn all about the TwentyThree summit on our website and sign up to get notified about 2026 and until then i cannot wait to see you um at the next year event of video agency day and until then i hope um you'll all have a great time uh developing your agencies and being curious on kind of challenging the category and everything that's happening out there and i will see you again next year for video agency day thank you very much bye