Video Brand

Hello and thank you very much for having me back here. As Amelia said, I'm here to talk about the video brand and If you haven't realized after two days here we are in the video era most definitely which is as we believe a hugely exciting place to be for brands and for agencies alike and from the brand perspective I always like to bring up some data and one of the pieces that I think is very important at this point is around 85% of consumers want to see more video from brands and added to that we know that brands that have video on their website get 40% more dwell time. So these are important metrics, they're important statistics around, oops hang on, I didn't click forward, there you go, you can see that there. So these are important metrics for brands, you know, important reasons for them to get out there and be making video and marketers know this. So it's not really surprising that 90% of video marketers are using YouTube as a platform for their marketing. Not surprising at all. Interestingly, that number is going down. We know this number is going down and it's happening in favor of video marketing platforms and quite rightly because it's easy to understand why. There are so many shortcomings from effectively having your brand on YouTube. Not least because you're giving away your customer data and we all know how important that customer data is today. If you look on the left-hand side, you'll all be very familiar with this, but if you have your brand there, you genuinely risk that another brand just pops up in the feed or even you risk that there's a comment that's made there about your brand that you have absolutely no control over. Equally, you could risk sending them away to a different environment as well. So because of these, there's a great risk for brands and importantly, you look on the right-hand side there and what you see in the middle of the video, a very, very familiar play button, the red play button. You can't brand that environment. Now, YouTube isn't the only suboptimal platform that's being used for video either. And here you can see, and in some ways, I say you can see, it's a little hard at times, but on one of these is Microsoft Teams and the other one is Zoom. And these platforms are not built for webinars. And so from a technical perspective, it is a little bit more problematic for them. But more interestingly, these platforms are being used as a brand voice. All the time they're being used as a brand voice. But they aren't actually reflecting the brand because you don't see the brand there. The brand visualization isn't there. And so we're kind of obviously very familiar with these fairly classic branding devices, you know, the logo, the colors, typeface, a little bit of motion, things like that. And these are fairly classic. And in the playbook that we often use and we see, but there is this whole other area that can be used with and around the brand and that the brand can control. And that's what we start to call the video brand. And it is things like the branded video player. It is a video page. And there are different creative components to that too. So without using these, and if you're not using these, there is this huge risk that a huge amount of your customer engagement is unbranded. 50% of your customer engagement can be unbranded if you are not thinking outside that fairly traditional and common box of those existing brand elements. And what we are certainly starting to see, and I'm very excited about this idea of the video brand, is that there are companies that are starting to incorporate that and this into their playbooks. What we certainly see is that they're very modern companies, they're dynamic, they're probably digital first. But that is starting to happen. So from our perspective, we see there's a great opportunity to start to really build brands and into this area and really raise that engagement level. So it can be simple from play buttons to progress bars to the video page, thumbnails, registration pages. And I think in the keynote, you'd have seen a lot of our new innovation and we can build it in there too into TV cards and things like that. But it's up there in the top right, you kind of see that logo example, that little moment where you can add that real dynamism and an opportunity to delight. And we're doing this more and more. We're exploding it out with icons, with buttons, with typography. And all of this you can do on the TwentyThree platform. And here you can see a bit of a kind of toolkit of how that works. So to really just wrap that up and summarize, there is a huge engagement opportunity out there. If we think outside some of those common brand elements, those branding elements, to these new areas around the video brand with these new components, and we think this is a 50% customer engagement opportunity. So that is a whistle-stop tour, really, to what we believe is the video brand and how it can be taken forward and the areas that can be investigated. And right now, what I would like to do is to introduce a genuine design legend who I've had the pleasure of meeting quite a bit now through this investigation of the video brand. And I'm just going to put my glass on for this. So Bo Lineman is the founder and creative force behind Contrapunt, one of Scandinavia's most influential design agencies, with a global presence in Copenhagen, Tokyo, and beyond. He is a true design veteran who has shaped brand identities for the likes of Lego, Carlsberg, Mitsubishi Motors, and Honda, leaving an incredible, indelible mark on both Danish and international design. His work and approach consistently looks to bridge craft and culture. And with over 40 years of experience under his belt, he is truly a key figure in Denmark's design legacy and a global voice in branding and typography. So with that, I'd be delighted if you would please join me in welcoming Bo onto stage, where we will talk about branding and the video brand. So please welcome Bo Linnemann to the stage. Good to see you. Come on, thank you, Ben. Excellent, excellent. Well, please grab a seat. Oh, my God. Great. Thanks a lot for this introduction. I'm glad I was not here. I was back there. Well, Bo, I mean, it's without a doubt the introduction that you deserve. And as I said, in the time that we've been talking with you about the video brand, and I've had the opportunity to meet you and discuss all these elements, it's been nothing but a pleasure. And the insight that you have in this area is incredible. So I'd like to just take this opportunity in this next 30 minutes or so to really tap your brain, your experience about branding and typography and the video brand to a degree. But let's just take a step back, if we may. Okay. And how did your fascination with letter and branding start? I mean, as I understand it, it started maybe with your parents? Well, yes, in a way. It did. I mean, now I'm a veteran and my parents are long gone. But when I was growing up, my father was a psychiatrist and my mom was an artist. And somehow this combination, I think, has somehow led me into my profession later on, at a later stage. Because, I mean, designing brands is very much about psychology. And somehow you have to take your clients into a therapy of some kind. So maybe, I don't know if it's coincidental, but sometimes I think about this. Yeah, absolutely. And it's always interesting to hear where the inspiration comes from, particularly when you stay in a particular area. And it becomes, to a degree, your life's work. And I suppose also very beautiful that something like that starts from a young age. And you just have that commitment for life, to a degree. You decide young and that's what you then go on and do. Whoops. Sorry. Yeah, maybe. Maybe. Yeah. Sorry. No, that's good. You've had a lifetime in letters, to a degree. I'd love to dig into that. But very quickly, in some way level set with all of us here, it'd be interesting to get your perspective. And this is a big question. On what is a brand? Well, to me, I would say a brand is a relation. Yeah. Or a connection. It's the way you reach your, I mean, engage with a product or a company or a service or whatever it might be. Yeah. It's, I mean, it's those feelings that these brands leave behind, so to speak, on how you, I mean, how you consider a certain company or... Yeah. So it's a, it's baked in a value system. Yeah. I mean, it's... And behavior. To me, design is just a mean. I mean, it's just a tool to visualize this feeling, you can say. But it's all about the emotions inside yourself or your feelings that matters. And the design is just, you can say, the surface. The surface. Somehow. Yeah. So the brand is... Not to talk it down, but still, you know, it's funny because some... Now I work very much in Japan. And in Japan, until recently, even the huge or the biggest companies, they consider their logo as their brand. Right. Yeah. So they say, oh, we have a brand. We have our logo. Yeah. Yeah. And to me, it's such a misinterpretation because, I mean, it's just a reproach. It's an representation. Yeah. It's an identification. Yeah. It's not the brand. No. At all. No. No. And I think, I mean, I suppose to a degree, if you... They're taking it incredibly literally. If you go back, I think, to the very origins of what a brand is, it's just, it is a mark. Mm-hmm. And it was, I guess, the... From the kind of the plains of America marking cows, and that's what a brand was. Exactly. And it's, I guess, what since then, and as you quite rightly describe, it's this sentiment that it creates. And then the design is the shop front, but behind it, there has to be the substance. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So, I mean, that, I think, is a great kind of stage setter, I think, just to kind of understand where we are and what we're talking about. But so to then dig in a little bit more to, I guess, the real art that you've crafted and letter forms, and how do letter forms themselves maybe carry emotion and identity? And if there are any examples you want me to pull up, I will do what I can. Yeah. I mean, there are many examples of that, and we all know, you know, I mean, many logos are made by letter forms. Mm-hmm. So when you see most logos, you see some type. Yeah. And this type actually gives you, you can say, the whole feeling of it. Yeah. And, I mean, we all know the golden M or the golden seagull, or what's it called? Yeah. And, I mean, it's just an, actually, it's just an M. Yeah. But it just represents so much. Yeah. Yeah. So it's just an example of how much a single letter can actually, can have an impact on. Absolutely. And, I mean, I think you, and you hear those, that golden M or the golden arch is being nicknamed and up and down America. Yeah. Mm-hmm. For many, many Americans and many people around the world. So, building on that, I mean, could you share an example of typography that, in your view, gets it absolutely right? Well, for me, for me, one example has always been standing out. And this is, you know, going back 2,000 years to the Roman Empire, where you had, you know, that was the, sort of the first time that we actually saw Latin lettering. And, and you have this, you see it here, you have this inscription on the base of the Trajan column in Rome. And exactly this inscription, it's just a small plate, about three meters by two meters, maybe even not that big. And these letters are actually today also considered as being the most ideal typeface the world has ever seen. Now, also 2,000 years later. Yeah. And to me, this has always been, you can say, the most strong brand typeface I ever came across. Because it represents the whole Roman Empire. And it represents, not the least, it represents power, you know. So, when you see these letters, you are just, you know, feeling so small. Yeah. I mean, that's... And to me, it has always been fascinating. Because, I mean, now we have had so many type designers since that time, but no one has ever come up to this standard, you know. And I think that's quite extraordinary. That's... And it shows not, I mean, of anything else, it shows that letters can stand the test of time. Yeah. And it does, they don't somehow get old-fashioned or old-school or... Not the letter themselves. Maybe the way you stage the letters. But the letters form itself can actually last, I mean, for 2,000 years. Absolutely. Absolutely. And the way you expressed it, that they represent power, they intimidate slightly. Yes. To where we were, you know, a couple of minutes ago, talking about emotion. I mean, that's the absolute illustration of that. Of just the fact that these can effectively intimidate you. Yeah. It's extraordinary. Exactly. Absolutely extraordinary. Exactly. And, I mean, if I look at that and I can see eyes like a... I had the misfortune, dare I say, to study Latin. And the cue I can see in the top right -hand corner totally brings me back to those times of studying Latin, which I did not enjoy. So, yeah. And as you quite rightly say, it represents branding. Simple as that. It stood the test of time. Fascinating. So, I mean, you could say many of the basics of branding have been set in stone since the Roman Empire. And now, to move on a little bit and dig into, I guess, power. When you look at a brand, what's the first thing design communicates before we kind of process even maybe the words? Well, I mean, you say a picture can tell a thousand words. Yeah. And, of course, so when you see something visual, you actually read it differently from when you hear words or read words. And that's, you can say, the power of the visual part of it. So, I mean, you can somehow identify a brand just from a color or maybe a letter or maybe, you know, whatever. You see a bit of a corner of a... You can recognize it. Is this one that hits that mark? Yeah. I mean, this is a... I mean, I didn't design this. It's designed 100 years ago or more. But I designed the typeface below, which somehow carries the brand, you know, in the letter form. Yeah. And so you don't have to expose your brand logo. So you can just read, like, probably. Yes. And then you connect to Carlsberg. And something that I don't know if it happens here, but in the UK, you can't have a brand, an alcohol brand, in a sporting environment. Yeah. So can Carlsberg use their logo? No, they're not. I mean, I'm not sure. I'm not sure how it is in the UK, but in France, they cannot. Okay. And especially during the big Cups. Yeah. They were hosting the World Cup or the European Cup in 2016. Yeah. And Carlsberg were the... Sponsors. Sponsors. But they couldn't use their brand logo in the stadiums. That would have been quite a surprise to the brand manager, wouldn't it? Yeah. That was... I don't know if they have realized that when they signed the contract. Yeah. But they were not allowed to do it. So we have... You had to come up with a different way of branding Carlsberg, you know. And truly incredible that, as you highlight, you can leverage purely that typography. And that can carry the brand without the logo. Which is... The power of branding is absolutely incredible. And so building on this a little bit, do you think it's possible for a brand without a strong design to connect in a way that this does? Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Oh, without a design. Yeah. You can say an invisible brand. I guess. Yeah. I mean, you can connect to a brand just with a sound or with a smell or with a whatever. Yeah. That touches your senses. But that's somehow also design, you can say. So... But you can... You can... I mean, you can get a long way with... With... I mean, design... The design doesn't have to be good design, you know. Yeah. It could also be even bad design. Okay. Yeah. And still, you would love the brand. Yeah. If they behave right or if they deliver what you expect or... Yeah. So... So the design doesn't have to, you know, live up to that standard. Okay. And there are many examples of that also. You can... I mean, to me, personally, I... If you take a brand like Patagonia, it's... The logo itself, the type and the mountain and the colors, it's actually... I wouldn't say it's good design. Yeah. From a professional point of view. Yeah. I mean, the type is quite standard. It's a standard typeface somehow. Yeah. The colors are not really, you can say, combined in a... Yeah. Logic way or... And... But still, when you see... When you see it, you just get a good feeling. And... Yeah. Then you consider this as being excellent design. Okay. And... That's fascinating. And I think it's a good example of how little a design actually means to a brand. Yeah. But it's just the representation of the brand. Yeah. I'd love to pick on that... Pick up on this in a little bit more detail, actually. But before we do that, I... I... I want to touch on this. I think we... You know, we talked about the connection a little bit earlier between... That the brands can have and typography can have and obviously what the Trojan font did. And at 23, we often talk about brands connecting through storytelling and being real and authentic. And so, how do you... And can you translate kind of meaning and ideas and play into visualizations? And into branding? Is there a way that you can do that? And are there brands that do that in a... In a... In a... In a very, very good way? Oh, yes. I mean... If... Going back to the letter forms. I mean, you can definitely say that... Take... If you take the legal brand, it will not be appropriate for a pharmaceutical, for example. No. No. I mean... So, the letter form are shaped to fit... You can say the profession or the category... Yeah. ...the brand lives in. Yeah. And... And so do all the other assets... Yeah. ...in the brand toolbox, so to speak. And I've got three kids and, you know, step on Lego on a... On a daily basis. And one thing that I remark about when I step on Lego, it's very square. Yet the logo is not. It has... Sorry? It's got... It's got these curvatures. And is that... Just out of curiosity, is that part of that playfulness? You have a brand that actually is... And they call them... I mean, they call them bricks. But the logo is quite the antithesis. Yeah. I mean, as a Luddite, and I am no designer, I'd be, well, you're square. So, your logo should be square. But logo is absolutely not that. And it seems that represents actually an immediate kind of way of saying, yeah, we're playful. But I don't know why... But somehow, you could say, rounded letters... Yeah. ...are speaking to a younger audience or maybe even children. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And where sharp, strict letter forms speak more to, you could say, the intellect or... Yeah. ...to the more adult. Yeah. So, there are all these considerations. Interesting. And I believe this is somehow quite global, this perception of letter forms. Yeah. Somehow. I mean, you see it definitely in Asia. You see a lot of... I mean, if you take... What is it called? Hello Kitty or... Yeah, yeah, yeah. All these... Yeah. ...toy brands, they normally have rounded letter forms, right? Yes. For some reason. Yeah, yeah. And it's actually silly, but that's how it is. But I guess they, in some way... And it comes back to this point about connection. Connection and emotion, that they're softer... Yeah. ...and effectively more approachable. And more human. And more human. Yeah. Absolutely. And so, tapping a little bit more on the storytelling piece, something that I've been kind of fascinated with and following to a degree is the Allsted brand and how they have... I mean, from a business perspective, obviously, and doing amazing things in the world, the way they rethink things, but also from a kind of design perspective, it feels that there's something storytelling in the design that they're trying to do there. Yes, that's true. I mean, Allstead is a good example of the development that we see in global branding these years that many bigger companies, they... they are on a journey to what we call stakeholder capitalism, where they see themselves as a... as part of a bigger ecosystem than just pleasing their shareholders. Yeah. So they sort of become more brand-driven... Yes. ...in this journey, and maybe also more purpose-driven. Mm-hmm. And it all builds on story. Yeah. On a certain story they have to... tell, you know, their audiences. Yeah. And so, today, brand is building on stories. Yeah. You see? And those brands that have no stories... Yeah. ...are without content somehow. Absolutely. And they become irrelevant to... to you. So... Because it's the story that you actually buy into. Yes. Absolutely. And so, with... with this... this design here, I mean, it's got this softness to it, and it feels like there's some kind of sway in the why, and... Yeah. I mean, this is an example of... of a typeface that represents this company, Ørsted. Yeah. And Allstead is the biggest green energy supplier now... Yeah. ...in the world, I believe. And... and this typeface, somehow represents the... you can say, the company that deals with wind. So the letter forms are somehow shaped by the wind... Mm-hmm. ...as you can see. Yeah. And so they get, you know, these curvatures... Yeah. ...that normally you don't have in letter forms. No. Absolutely. So... And this becomes then a... you can say, a typeface that... where they can write anything with this, and they... ...the letters themselves connect to the brand. Yeah. And... which also... today, you could say, is so important for brands to... to be represented by a typeface. Yeah. Especially because on mobile devices, normally you don't have room for a logo or even a color, so you only have text. Yeah. And if you can get the text to portray your brand... Yeah. ...you can have the connection... Absolutely. ...just by one letter... Yeah. ...or maybe just a word or... I mean, that's so resonant, but I mean, like, one thing that's certainly come through in the different talks you've had here is... is about the attention economy. And actually, therefore, typography is a huge tool within that. It is. And then... and I suppose, actually, they're moving and building on this and looking ahead a little bit. We've... obviously, we're... we're interested in this area of... of branding the video space and believe it's going to be this, you know, bigger part of design. So, to a degree, we've seen a bit of emotion there, but what role does the... does video emotion play now in the branding space? I mean, now we are here. Yeah. But I would say video plays a more... video play a more and more central role. Yeah. I say, because, I mean, if you only have a brand that can... can only be static... Yeah. ...or only suitable for print, then they wouldn't perform in... Yeah. ...digital platforms today... Yeah. ...or digital media. Yeah. So, all brands have to be able to move, you can say. Yeah. And today, it's not a matter of how a brand looks, but the way it behaves. Yeah. And that also includes, of course, motion design... Yeah. ...and videos and... Yeah. ...sound and, you know, footage, imagery, and you can say the whole look and feel... Yeah. ...is combined... a combination of all these different assets and... And one... one brand that you've... you've mentioned to me in the past is... is... is Gertek. And I wonder if I could just show some of the... the typography that you've worked with on that. Sure. Which... Also... typeface that has been made for video yeah or for yeah motion design yeah and only to be you know applied on digital platforms absolutely and and and I guess and sorry yeah and this is you can say this is also new to type design that yeah that type should be able to move or to entertain you on a different level than just read reading and so in in in your experience now from a from a business perspective and also from a client perspective are you are you needing now to build out this form of typography almost it's now becomes well it's not that all type has to move but it becomes almost part of the brief that it needs to live like that not the typeface but the brand the brand definitely I mean I would say videos I mean now this development I just mentioned about you know going from to towards the stakeholder capitalism and be part of a bigger societal you can say responsibility yeah that also means that the brains have to explain themselves in a broader sense or in new ways and that's where a video comes in because I mean if you are in the green transition and maybe you issue some white papers that people don't want to read or don't have time to read you can actually explain your story in a video in an extremely condensed way yeah and and now when the attention span is so small or so short I mean that's where video has this huge impact that you can actually yeah read it in a few seconds maybe and get back to it absolutely but that's also yeah somehow have a another side to it yeah that it actually shortens the attention span you know oh absolutely and absolutely yeah and this development you could argue you know you could discuss yeah no I think that's a tremendous issue that our attention spans are being kind of eroded like that so I mean we're starting to come up on time unfortunately so I just want to kind of revisit some fairly consistent themes that you've talked about and regarding design and impact and responsibility and values and maybe just tap back on on the Patagonia example and if you could just talk a little bit more about how about the design there because you've mentioned that actually it's not great design but I'd just like to hear a little bit more about that and before we before we close it's not it's not to put you on the spot and say this is not great it is but it's it's because I think there's always huge admiration for the Patagonia brand and it's but I think what what's coming out in what you say is it's something very strong about design and brand value so I just wonder if you can just touch one more on Patagonia yeah I mean I think many people would would say I'm crazy when I say this is not really good to sign but I hope you understand you'll get my point that that the whole value of this design comes from the way yeah the company behaves or acts or perform you yeah and and then it doesn't matter if the design is good or not because it does it's not relevant no it's it's only but still you could say the good design of this logo is that it's really you recognize it easily yeah but you recognize it easily also because you know what you're looking for absolutely yeah because if you don't know it it's just nothing true but it kind of feels and I think unfortunately but we're gonna have to wrap up but it feels like we've almost come full circle which is you know we at the start we talked about brands being actually about their their their values and the design being the front frontage but if the if what's behind doesn't have substance and the designers hasn't got the value that it should have but I think also what's come through very strongly is when the brands do have that value system and they can deliver through with it there's a huge amount of heavy lifting that the typography and the colors can do in the video space if they can really imbue that properly yeah and that's actually what we should be really focusing on and taking advantage of and making sure we can we can surround the brand at all times with those elements yeah and to us designers it means that we have to sort of practice some new skills because yeah until recently we could only only do print design yeah but now it's so much bigger and so many new media and so many new techniques or you know technologies that we have to count in and yeah so now it's like conducting an orchestra or a big band you know well you have different instruments playing the same tune well I can think of no better person Bo in that respect to be conducting orchestra than you at Contraplankton I think it is just clearly testament to how you've built such an incredible company and it has been nothing short of a privilege to be able to talk to you today and thank you for sharing I'm just a type designer you know well he's built a huge business across the globe but I mean you can say it is yours but Bo thank you so much it's been a genuine thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you both so much