Meet the Video Changemakers

So welcome everyone, and as you'll have gathered, this is about Meet the Video Changemakers. And so before our superb panelists kind of start chatting about this, I just want to contextualize this a little bit. So this is the way we at 23 kind of see this. So video changemakers may be some of probably the most important people at this summit. Don't forget that, boys. And potentially the most misunderstood. They're not AI changemakers, potentially they could be, but they're not the way we're looking at right now, AI changemakers who arrive at companies wrapped in hype with infinite budgets and resources. Video change makers go about their business without fanfare, creating their own roles, often without permission, pushing their organization to something that they believe it should move towards, but often doing it with that everyone else realizing what they're doing and why they're doing it. They work hard, rarely have the titles that we've seen other big transformational agents be given, yet they're building critical infrastructure their business that will see them, those businesses, effectively win or lose. With that, ladies and gentlemen, please let me introduce and welcome to the stage, obviously we have Marius, we have George, and we have Benjamin, and I know them well, and I've worked with them, and I can absolutely vouch for the things that they're doing in their organizations, and the input that they are doing to this category. So, to start, we obviously had a little chat before, right, about this, but in the spirit of change-making, I've changed it entirely. So none of the questions that we've discussed, we're now going to discuss. Wow. Great. Great that we didn't perform. Yeah. Glad I said that to 1am, reading all the questions. I mean, don't see it as an exam, but it's like, we're just going to roll with the, the, the, the point, and that's going to be just one of our, our little areas. Okay. But anyway, so, but let's, can we just start with a little arc about what you do and where you do it, and why you got into it? And, hey, Marius, let's start in your corner, my friend. Yeah. So, like, starting from the very beginning, I studied sports, economy, and law, so it has nothing to do with video. And, but it was, it was always my passion to produce videos, and at one point in my career, some friend of mine came to me and said, hey, at Allianz Day, trying to build an in-house agency for video production, would you be interested to be one of the first two employees there? And I was like, sure thing. I'll, I'll listen to them. And two days later, I got the offer, hey, do you want to start in a month, to be one of the first two employees there? And that was in 2020, too. So it's four years ago. We were two people, had no idea what we were going to do. They had bought equipment for us, so we had two cameras and laptops, and we said, okay, now you're building an internal agency to produce videos for Allianz under the structure of an internal in-house consultancy. So it's not a cost center, but you need to earn money. And that's what we, like, did, and getting better every year, and now we're four years in. We're not two people anymore. We are, like, 30 now. We're generating revenue for the company. It's not only we have to get enough revenue to pay our employees. It's not 100%, but it's more or less like that. And to add an additional 10 or 20% of revenue, because that also goes into that consultancy structure. And that's what I'm in from the very beginning. It was more the connecting part between the camera guys and management, and now I'm the operational lead of the entire team, steering 12 hours. That's the biggest change. So we are five guys and eight girls. That's superb to hear, because actually when we met the producers earlier, there was a real discussion point about actually the demographic and the importance to address that. Brilliant. And George, your story. Yeah, great. If anyone has seen me before, I apologize. Normally there'd be a slide which has a man pushing over a little domino. And then quite a while away, there's a much bigger domino. And that first domino would be making a . . . Doctor Who video on my trampoline at the age of 10 and then the last domino would be I'm now the video marketing manager for a law firm talking to all you lovely people. So that is generally the journey in a nutshell. Obviously quite a little bit in between, but I joined the firm in 2020 almost as like a stopgap pandemic, needed a job and they had a corporate in-house AV person. I thought I was going to be turning on the meeting room screens at 6am, maybe editing a few videos, but mostly that sort of thing. Thankfully it was more the video editing, but they'd said to me when I was hired, they are looking to hire someone internally in the marketing team properly as well, and I basically did them a presentation that said, do you want to train someone new, or do you want to keep the guy who already knows how to do it and do it even more? But I had the old marketing corporate experience as well, so I was able to basically bring both of those together, and yeah, I make videos, podcasts, we've got a studio. They basically said to me, do you want 50 grand to build a studio, and I went, yes obviously, I will take that offer, I would be stupid not to. It's not for you, George. I know, right, I love it. It's kind of for me though, my meeting my office is the studio. So no, it's pretty cool, people always come down to as they call it my hobbit hole, because there's no windows whatsoever in that room, it's a very dark filming room, but no, loved it, been working here now, coming up on six years, and working with 23 as well in all that time and yeah. And just a quick follow up question, when you got that first job, am I right in saying you were told there was no career path? Pretty much, yeah, it was to build it. In a sense it's nice to hear there's no ceiling but there does need to be like some walls I would say ideally, right? But no, yeah, originally it was, I've had all the weird job titles which I know we talk about here as well about being video changemaker and the like but no, I've been a multimedia executive, I've been a video specialist as well, but all under the same umbrella but yeah no, we've made the walls and the ceiling as we've gone. There we go. And Benjamin, hear how you started out and what you got into it and what you got into it. I picked up a camera 15 years ago for a football game, starting as a volunteer for a fan club started taking pictures and it was right around that time where the DSLR cameras really became consumer friendly in terms of price and there was a real switch in what you could do for a relatively small amount of money and I started using it for videos as well and yeah, then I got an offer from the actual football club to start doing both, at the beginning volunteer jobs and then paid jobs with them, started producing my own content pieces, developing all of those and yeah, then it's always been connected to the football but then I started doing a lot of other things and I worked with production companies, agencies, I've been freelancing, been around, very different jobs but all connected to video and yeah, five years ago Faith wanted that I joined Saxo with no banking experience previously or any education that goes in that direction but yeah, I took on the challenge and I got more or less the same speeches as you did, George. I remember they asked me at the job interview how I felt about taking on a job where there was no career possibilities of like going any further than that video producer role that they offered me and at that time it was mainly a thing where we we did internal communications a little bit and then I was essentially just sitting there waiting for someone to tell me, okay, now we have this, we want you to produce, please, do something, so that's that's where my Saxo journey really started and yeah, I remember I told him that it's okay, I don't need the promotion right now but let's see where things go and yeah, three years from from my starting date, more or less, I got offered a role as head of video and animation content, which essentially is all our platform content for our existing clients, so everything that rhymes with video or everything that I say should rhyme with video, that's where I try to do my magic now. Superb, and so just to pick up on one point there about the head of video, had that, I'm guessing that title hadn't existed? No. In the organization that kind of Yeah, that was something that's developed with with all the things that we we try to do differently. I mean, I took over from a guy who had been with Saxo for I think almost 15 years, yeah, and I think there was a lot of you know, we just do what we always done because that's what we know, right? Yeah. So I think I try to disrupt some of those ways of working and and yeah, creating something that was maybe a little bit out of the box sometimes and yeah, I mean, I invested a lot of extra spare time in in doing stuff just because I feel like that that was the easiest way to to force those changes really. That's maybe an interesting point to pick up on because Marius, you've talked from the position of of being an agency within the business, and it'd be interesting to kind of explore that a little bit because one thing that I certainly remember from agency time was just you are slogging, slogging, slogging, doing so much work, right? And here you've described actually just doing that internally. And what kind of and maybe, Marius, you might have an interesting perspective on this, what kind of differences do you see not being part of Allianz but yet being part of Allianz, if that makes sense? Because you yeah, feels like you're embedded but at the same time you've got to make money and and you are advising and I guess some people, you know, third parties might pitch for work that you need. Yeah, so we're not for all our projects but for a large amount of our projects we are always pitching against the same people, against external agencies. And we have like a couple of selling points that we tell our customers, hey, work with us because we're internally especially when it comes to Allianz data security and everything that we now see data security. We have the same systems as you, so if you want to upload a video, you don't have to grant us access to any of the Allianz systems because we have the same contract as you do, so we are running on the same systems. That's always a key selling point, or if we accompany an event of C-levels all around the world, for example, that's always like a selling point for them. So send us there, we are Allianz employees, like everything that you're saying is not going to go external, but like internal, we're working on the same contract. Different selling points that we now have to like make people hire us. And then in the first two years I would say it was still like, we don't know them, it's a new thing, we would rather work with the agencies that we've worked with, right? Like, we've done it. And now after like three and a half, four years now it's like developing more towards word of mouth is our biggest selling point internally because like Allianz has 170,000 employees worldwide, so there's a lot of like video produced and we maybe now have 5%. Right. Everything, so there's still a lot, a lot done by external agencies. We're trying and trying to get more and more into our agency. And so from a disruptive perspective, is it easier to disrupt from the inside or from the outside? I mean, that's slightly harder for you to answer, but like said, George and Benjamin, and I'm like, just how difficult can you be within the organization, and just how many people can you annoy without it being dangerous for your careers? It's a very difficult question. It's a very thin line of like where do you cross it, I think. Yeah. That's definitely something about reading the room once in a while and know when to speak and when not to. Sometimes I may not have known exactly that time because I'm definitely one when the ideas come up, I tend to say it out loud. And yeah, I mean, it may not always work, but I think to a large extent people who sit on top of the businesses they tend to listen when you have your arguments in place, right? So I've always been very data driven as a person. I may not have been the most creative video producer. I have a bit of both worlds with me, so I think that's really been my strength, that people always tended to listen a little bit more because I didn't just throw around fluffy ideas. I actually came with concrete numbers. And if there's one thing that people especially in the bank understands, that's numbers, right? So bringing them to the table I think is something that helps you build the case easily. And yeah, I mean, I've been lucky enough also to be in a position where I've probably been talking to more of the business than the average employee. Interesting. I mean, we have 2500 people on a global basis and about one third of them sit in Copenhagen where I'm sitting. So yeah, I got to talk to a lot of different people in the organisation and obviously doing a monthly CEO pit stop on video with our CVO, that also helped a little bit to plant some ideas once in a while and almost starting with that inception of planting the seed and then wait for it to grow, and at some point he's gonna say I think we should do this. It was his idea all along, right? You're right, that's a great idea, right? Let's go. So George, in terms of a law firm, which without wishing to characterise it too much I can imagine it has its constraints. Yeah, definitely, definitely can do. Like there are times where I've gone to people and said look, we were involved with the patent for the last first light bulb ever created. Like that's a crazy stat for Bird & Bird. Look it up, we were involved with that 150 years ago. Like that's quite cool. Like the light bulb exists because we were involved with that as well. So I said to the head of London I've got a prop. I've asked the facilities team, but I've emailed them and said hello to the props department, please can you create me a light bulb on a plank of wood in the studio. I'm gonna get the head of London to pull it down, turn the light on, fill up the screen and say 150 years ago we were involved with this. The first two people said no, I don't want to do that because that seems silly, because of course it does. It's gonna feel weird, you're gonna be out of your comfort zone. I'm basically walking him into my normal studio which is for filming Talking Heads, doing podcasts. Yeah. A product development studio almost. No, but I went to the head of London instead and I said, can we go for this? And he said, George, you're the most creative person in this building. And I went, well, thank you, I'll take that. It was absolutely high praise. Does that mean yes then? And he went, yeah, alright, fine. So it does work, but I think similar to what you said about how people like numbers, shocker. I'm a visual person, right? So obviously if you want to see great content with video, you don't have to look much further than some of the apps that are already on your phone. So giving some people some real world examples, we basically not to say that we've stolen, but now for all of our events we've been doing the like everyone holding the poster and then it cuts to every single person holding the poster in like a different location around London. Everyone has like done a version of that and we like just keep adapting that and doing that ourselves. But saying to a lawyer, do you have 15 minutes free? Sorry, you need to go stand outside the London Eye holding a poster. And they go, I get to go outside? I go, yes, it's class outside, guys. And then it turns out we're all children, and that works if and now, Yeah. And I guess actually there's a part of it which is what you bring to them actually is a very different, fun part of the job. So you're kind of you're on a less sticky wicket at that point. Yeah. And so you know, being Marius, how difficult can you be? I mean, not personally, but you know, actually how much can you push in the organisation to shake things up and be difficult and make them see that position from the agency internal position that you have? Yeah, so it's highly depending, I would say, with clients that we've worked with in the past like a couple of times and they have a trust in us, we can be the pain in the ass to push them towards we think like the production should go because we heard that earlier. Mainly, like some people come to you, hey, we want to produce a video. Why? For whom? What's the audience? Yeah, we have X amount of budget left and we think it's cool and our project is cool and our product is cool. You're okay, but you're selling it to them. We're selling an internal product to an internal audience and the internal audience doesn't watch videos like we saw that in past. So our job is always okay, being like also part of an internal consultancy, also to consult these people towards what is right and maybe it's not always video what they need but maybe a communication strategy. So we now have the freedom to push people into the like in the right direction. And but there are also times where people say hey, we want to have this produced and we say, yeah, maybe it's not right. Yeah, we don't care, we pay the money, so you produce it. Okay, fair. Yeah, okay. So it's depending on the client, but really to be disruptive in ways Allianz does video, we're not there yet. Okay. It's like, so like friction, it's like not Yeah. Allianz is not Allianz. It's like Allianz is SE, Allianz is technology, Allianz is life, Allianz is whatever, and every company, like every land, every operation entity is their own like entity and they belong to Allianz, but they don't have to do what the mother says. They can do, but they don't have to. Yeah. And that makes things like when you think about a global approach very, very difficult. Yeah. I think that this area around kind of obstacles to a degree you know that you've confronted is a really interesting one because I think it's very much they need to be in the sight of the changemaker. And so, George and Benjamin, and like with that in mind, what do you identify as? I mean, there are two ways, what obstacles or the other side looking at it, what obstacles have you come over when you've been working that have changed things internally for you? I mean, you mentioned the data that sounds like actually it shook things up quite a lot. Have there been other obstacles that you've managed to overcome? I think the most important one is still that's, you know, changing the way we do things, yeah, and not just do as we always did it. I remember we were doing a webinar at one point with the CEO of DSV, which is, you know, one of the largest companies in the world in the transport sector. And I mean, it was a huge thing to get the CEO to spend an hour in our studio sitting with our people. And then they wanted to promote the webinar and they were just doing this classic image, and my first thought is we have something here on video and we're promoting it with still photography, right? Absolutely. I mean, the irony here, I asked if we could do just a short video. I was told that there was not time enough because we were too busy with all other projects. So we just went with the picture and, yeah, I decided to do a video outside of working hours and I posted it on my own Instagram just as a slight review thing for that. And yeah, one of my colleagues who worked with the social media and the company asked me, why are we not doing this on our own channel? And I said, yeah, that's a good question, right? But we didn't prioritize it. And then, I mean, yeah, obviously, she said, can I please post it? I said, yeah, sure. I sent her the video, she posted it, and yeah, the reception was luckily enough really good. So I mean, that was so effectively my way of saying I know something works here, so Yeah, you published it kind of in a clandestine manner but with enough views and then it became mainstream for users. And I mean, we got sign up directly from that, so it worked, right? Nicely done. I mean, on a small point and a quick win for 23 as well, I literally just looked at the data and saw that our 10 second intro animation no one was watching it because why would they? They were either clicking off it or going, oh, this again, and clicking off the video as a whole. So the first quick easy win I did was no intro animation. Very, very simple but has saved us a good 10 seconds getting straight into the content. It's the same why most podcasts you listen to me now have the mini podcast and most movie trailers have the mini movie trailer before the movie trailer because they know that they're all trying to get your attention And none of you want to give it. So yeah, I'm going to dig into a little bit now about some of the the people in the business that you get close to and that you and doors you need to smash down to get things done. And who are some of those people in order to kind of push the change forward that you want to see happen? I mean, you mentioned getting close to the CEO. One thing that I've been fascinated by within the video and videographer role is the proximity you actually often get to CEOs because they need to look good, and you make them look good, and so you have their ear. But does that give you permission to to waltz into their office and tell them how to do video? Maybe not directly, but yeah, I mean, taking all the chances every time you talk to someone. I mean, you are in a field where we speak to a lot of people around the organization and, again, planting those ideas across all kinds of departments and different levels of employees. I think that's really the way to go. I mean, I was fortunate enough when I was still sitting in brand and design that we got a new head of marketing who kind of shared a lot of my visions, at least as long as I could back them up. So yeah, so one of the first things I did was really to build a business case saying, instead of spending X amount on freelancers, why don't we just hire an extra video producer? We will get double, if not triple, the output and probably spend less money on that. And I mean, it didn't take that long. And I told him, I already know who I want to hire for that job, so we don't even need a job ad. I mean, I have someone at hand. I know he's interested and he worked for us as a freelancer already, so he knows the business. He knows a lot of the stakeholders, the people he will be working with. And it was just it was a simple way of creating that, yeah, what you needed, cost benefit analysis. And yeah, I think that that is something to bring forward. Yeah. And so within Bird & Bird, who do you need to push? So I'll put it this way, I had this marked down in one of my reviews at one point because I said that me and the CEO are kind of mates because we kind of are now. Like, we meet in the studio before filming and he asks me about, like, Call of Duty and what movies I'm watching. And that's nice because we are humans, and funnily enough, we buy off of other humans as well. So if he comes off as a nice affable person in the room before we even turn the cameras on, that's probably a positive. But no, it's interesting to see. I mean, to your point as well, where you don't walk into his room in the studio and the teleprompter is not really working and it was like lagging a little bit and I was one person, I was running up and down the room trying to, like, literally on my hands and knees with the wires getting it. I was like, yeah, I'm sorry, Christian, but like the teleprompter is this older software. Why don't you get the new software? Then we'll approve it now. We'll get it bought. And I'm like, oh, if you're sure, then yeah, we can do it. Obviously I had it ready and we bought it. We did it perfect, just put a new license key in and we were off. But yeah, sometimes, again, like you were saying about it's their idea, obviously it's their idea. But no, we're quite lucky, we've got a CEO who very much buys into, he understands that he needs to come off well in person and on video as well, and what that means is that he's done a little bit of light media training. But he even says to me, like, he had to make a video to become CEO. They did like an internal sort of review process, so there were like seven candidates and I all had to give them the same amount of like time and remit and resource, obviously, to make that like fair, and this was quite daunting. This was in like my first year officially, I was like, oh, okay, right, this is what I'm doing, this seems very serious. So I had to get very close to them in that regard, but even the first time I recorded with him when he was not even the CEO, I was like, okay, yeah, he's got it. Like he's got that, like, I can tell he's got the delivery. He's got the intonation, he just needs to polish it a little bit further, and now we're five years later and all of it from town halls to the rest of it. So having him as Biden's great, it can also lead to I know everyone in the building and everyone knows me, which is good and bad. You're spending a lot of time trying to make sure that more people in the alliance know you. If people go, you're George Mole, right? I go, no, no, no, that's someone else, sorry. Yeah, too busy, it can't do that. I do like it though, because now people go, you're George, and you're really busy, and I go, okay, good, the messaging's working. Yeah. And then from your position, how does that work? I mean, so like the C level structure of like Allianz is a little difficult because there's like C level of Allianz Services and there's C level like on the C level above them. So where there is like C level, but it's always good to have allies in like the board offices. It's not for us, it's not really, okay, we have a direct contact to the CEOs, but it's always really good to have like the front office like person. Is our biggest ally when it comes to, okay, we want to align with them. They are not going to do this decisions, they're just going to show up and say, okay, what do I need to say, and everything pre-aligned is going to be done with everybody from this office, from their offices. So these are the people that we mainly work with, and they know like now they're starting, especially like in Allianz Services where we belong to, they know who we are and whom to reach out and what to like, what is for us important to know before like a shooting or a live stream or a town hall or anything, but and when the CEOs or the CFOs or whoever then arrives, they know, okay, I've worked with them like dozens of times now. Okay, I'll be there half an hour and I can go and everything is going to be great afterwards. I want to shift the conversation a little bit towards this evolution that we see, and I know from talking to you guys that you you've observed from production to strategy in this role as the producer but changemaker and needing to move from one to the other. And so what's that journey been like for you, Benjamin, within Saxo, from being, okay, classic producer to actually now effectively driving forward with a video strategy and actually developing a video strategy in your organisation? I mean, I've been, again, very much into the data, bringing that forward. And I mean, obviously, the basics are not always perfect, but yeah, I've looked into different ways of really leveraging video as a touchpoint for the customers, right? And it has to be throughout the organisation really. So everything from how to videos to the first point of whatever marketing push you're doing, all the content. I mean, the general understanding of content in Saxo has always been a written article, right? And I mean, there's people who really enjoy it, and that's also nice, but that's just a majority of people who prefer to watch a video when they want to, 85%, so when they want to learn something or they want to expand their knowledge a little bit on something or just get inspired. I mean, they tend to go where the video is, and if we want to keep people in our platform, we also need to be whatever the clients want us to be, right? And that is very much video driven. So I mean, I've always used that to really speak my case. And I mean, I got some valuable data from it, saying that people tend to spend 3.5 times longer in our platform when they consume video content compared to when they only use written content. And if it's someone who didn't consume any type of content, they stay even shorter amount of time, right? And yeah, with the supermarket and I'd be saying the longer people stay in our shop, the more likely they are to buy something. I mean, that's the way to keep people in there, right? So building the strategy really around the video has to be a big part of our communication, right? And I mean, where are you on this, Marius, in terms of that move and aggregating around? Is Allianz there yet? No. So it's also depending. We do also run one social media channel for Allianz, the TikTok channel for Allianz Germany, mainly run by my colleague sitting there. And there is like a high measurement behind that, so numbers, counts, impressions and so on. But we also do produce a lot of videos for internal, like for example, as I said, somebody who has a new tool that they want to distribute to their peers of Allianz technology. For example, they have like a new tool and they want to have them deployed, developers use that, they want this to be distributed and nobody is measuring that. We like ask them, hey, do you measure, where do you put it? Yeah, that's our concern. And now that's also like shifting slowly, also like thinking about the impact of the video more and more, because from when we started everybody was like, okay, we have the budget, we want to do this, can you please produce it? But it's slowly shifting, but with that giant of Allianz being things are not moving fast. No, and I can imagine, 170,000 people. I think you said it was 160,000, 170,000 people. Like the biggest is in Germany, but also like in Germany there are so many places, alone in Munich where we work, there are four different huge offices of Allianz in four different locations, and there is Allianz Life in Stuttgart because they say, we are a little bit different to you. We can do like, they are bringing the most of the revenue of Allianz, like when it comes to insurance, like there is PIMCO and stuff and financial investors, and they can more or less do whatever they want because also like a huge bench and they can do what the SE says, but they don't have to do it. Yeah, okay, okay. And then George within Bird & Bird, I mean, again, a large organization, 40 offices, I think you have got. Yeah, I should get this right. I say this every year, 34 offices in 23 countries. Someone is going to get mad at me, I think that is wrong. Yeah, in short, our video strategy was reactive, like I think most people when you first go in-house. I joined, I inherited a previous relationship, so that AV person who was turning on the screens at 6 am also did some videos and some podcasts. When I joined there was like four ongoing podcast series and a couple of video series, and then like the CEO would do like the odd strategy update, and it was, you know, the COVID was happening at the time, so that was shifting a lot more to a lot more video. So I inherited the existing strategy, which was very similar to the famous Danny Wallace book which was turned into a Jim Carrey film, I want to say in 2009. Anyone in the room knows what I am talking about? It is called Yes Man, where the answer to every question he has to say is yes. Great concept for a movie, terrible for a video strategy though, isn't it? However, that is what we did, because someone went, we need a video and I went, yep, cool, we will do that, sounds great. That is very common, of course it is. And that is hugely common, but now I would say the biggest change to our video strategy is saying no, and it is the same thing. It is like everyone has been parenting over today and I am sure tomorrow as well, is asking people why they want a video, and actually, oh, it turns out you care so much about blockchain and crypto and you are a lawyer in this space. You are so knowledgeable about this that a video would actually not capture what you need, this is actually a podcast. And the same thing, we have looked at the data and seen that when we do a 10 minute podcast it is not enough time to get into the meat of the like discussions that people change off. Our longer podcasts are like 45 minutes long, talking about the legalese of cryptocurrency. I mean, I am not interested in it and I have had to listen to it a few times in editing, so I am sorry for everyone else, but clearly we are seeing in the data that someone out there likes it. So, long is the new short, apparently. Most definitely, and I think Benjamin's data, I think that 40 minute dwell time is something that you are getting a load of, aren't you, on your webinars? I want to look to the future a little bit with you guys, as changemakers, and just get an understanding, firstly, where do you see video going within your organizations? I can kick it off. I think it is becoming more and more important to communicate once to your audience, like internally but also externally. It gets like way more important to also explain. Like insurance is like very hard to understand, like in the fullest details. If I tell you you need a car insurance, everybody, okay, car insurance. But what is it about, what is the difference between Allianz car insurance, for example, and HUK, for example? These details, and there are enough people working outside selling insurances and being good or not being good explaining what it is all about. But if you can provide a video explaining in detail or personalize, that is a good, maybe that is a strategy that Allianz is trying to personalize video about your product. So when you buy an insurance for car insurance and you take like 15 of the 10 or 20 possible boxes, then you will get a personalized video about, okay, your insurance covers this, this, this, and you didn't click like the last 5 buttons, so you don't get this, this, this and this. That is a strategy, if you want to call it. Personalized video to the end customer is very important, and internally it is more webinars, like we heard earlier, that is also what we are covering, live streams, town halls to communicate effectively to your employees about what is really mattering, what is, what do you want to tell them without talking about stuff that nobody cares. Very interesting, and I mean we talk about personal video but it is a very slightly different way, but this is literally kind of bespoke video per customer, having kind of gone an absolute clearance out into what they want and how to sell to them. But it is not like, as I said, it is not a worldwide thing, it is just some parts do that, some branches do that and some others don't. Yeah. Interesting, yeah. I mean, on another level this is going to seem really random and rare in the fact that I have got my phone out on stage, but there is a reason behind this. I promise that this is linked as well. I was on the drunk train back from London the other night. I promise you this is going somewhere, this was at 10 to 1 and there was a young couple, an American girl and a Welsh boy, and he was a singer and we were talking about what we were doing. I was like, I am in Copenhagen next week, I am going to be on stage talking about video and this guy was like, oh, I do music videos, the normal training of Instagrams. I am never going to make this guy a music video, but you know, he thinks I might, but it was just interesting because this guy who is a singer, just starting up, making TikToks on YouTube on the other side of the table, this American girl goes, oh, can I see your TikTok? I would love to see what you have done, and he only has two videos and she literally went, oh, I have scrolled, I have hit the bottom already. So it says to me that you are not ready, that you have not made enough content, you don't know what you are doing because I can already scroll to the bottom of your content, so you have not been doing it for a very long time, you clearly don't know what you are doing. So this is the future, guys, apparently. It is loads and loads of content that is all useless. Obviously not the same thing is still true that there should be some quality with that quantity, but it sounds like the new advice for starting up is quite a lot of quantity and hopefully a lot of quality within. My linking point there being that similar to that we are getting some people now who are doing personal video. We are choosing a lot of our lawyers to be like individual influencers for their sector, so like some of the individual lawyers, LinkedIn is now like we are spending a lot of time and resource, but even my team as well, to help them create their own self service videos as well, but it is just an interesting point already where it is like if you are about to start a new series, it needs to feel like a series has existed for a while as well. It sounds like some of the younger generations are going to have less buy in because they feel like it is too new, which is interesting. That is from the source of the drunk train, so take that one as well. But interesting enough, I went, I need to write that down. I have never heard that in my life. I scrolled already. How interesting. I suppose there was a point when the infinite scroll wasn't there, so that infinite scroll has killed opportunity, apparently. And so to be a changemaker in an organisation like this, what kind of attributes or skills do you think are most important to either have or to develop? Make people like you. Please. But to be honest, if people like you and you work, they are willing to give you trust and money and like the freedom of the word and the freedom of doing what you do without interrupting everything. And then, as we said, none of our positions that we know have been there when we started, so there was no position. Now for like four years there has been the development because people see if we let them do their job and let them do what they think is good, it evolves to something that is working. And that is only because people trust you because they like you, having the results and being able to say, here is the data, ideally still be quite good at what you are doing, as you were saying. They wouldn't like you, they wouldn't like the data, but I think that is a huge part of it. We have spoken in detail about how a lot of the work in the room is, I just do a little bit of stand up just to put the person at ease, and I think that is really important as well, that they are not going to come off well on video, which is a huge barrier. But I think making it clear, the first thing I say to people in the room is, look, I refuse to make a bad video. I am not a miracle worker, but I am going to try my best, and I think that already disarms enough to be like, we are on the same side here, we are on the same team, we want to make this together. What do you think? Definitely you need to make sure that people respect you and like you, and yeah, again, not being afraid of speaking up and saying, ok, I believe in this. I mean, you have to risk your own reputation, your own career sometimes, and say, ok, I believe so much in this that I am willing to take the fall if things go wrong. And I mean, luckily enough, with people who are passionate enough about what they are doing, they will also be willing to really make sure that everything works out the way they wanted it to and the idea, and that also means that you get to show some results at some point and people will then gain that trust and believe in you and start saying, ok, if we want to do something, maybe we don't throw out a full project saying we want exactly this. We reached at least a point now with my own with my own job and my boss where he basically comes to me and says, ok, we have a commercial push or this new feature or whatever that might be, please make something cool. And then it's basically up to me, but I mean that also gives me some creative freedom to say, ok, how can we deliver this message in the best possible way, especially so as much people as possible understand it. I mean, I work in highly regulated, but also very complicated at times business where people, they trust us with all their money, all their savings, their pension for their grandchildren, for their house, the boat they want to buy. They are trying to save up and they want to do that by investing, and I need to make sure that they know what they are doing. I mean, if you don't know what you are doing you are taking on a lot of risk. There is a chance that you will lose a lot of your money and we will probably also lose people as a client because why should they then invest in a big scam where you lose all your money and the rich get more rich, right? And it doesn't have to be like that, but taking I mean, I work with a lot of experts in each their own field and converting their expertise into something that even you and I could understand without a financial degree and 6 years at CBS or whatever that might be. I think that's that's where it is really. So, before I kind of wrap is there any questions from the audience for our changemakers up here? Please. So we as a team of 13 people we can't do everything ourselves. So we have script writers, editors, storytellers all in house. It's like structured in 4 departments like classical video production, social media, AI and live stream. That's like more 4 small directions. And whenever there is like too much client request we have a freelancer network that helps us out with all of the departments. So for example, we have a huge town hall, we need an audio guy, we go to an audio guy. It's like every field we have the freedom to hire somebody for the project from our network or also agencies. Yeah.