Charlie Sohne & Daniel Schloss: The next trends in visual storytelling

My name is Daniel Schloss, and I directed a pilot independently called Truth Slash Fiction, which Charlie, my friend from college, wrote Yeah, and so Truth Slash Fiction is about a group of high schoolers who write Slash Fiction or gay erotic fanfiction about a fictional boyband that we created called Truth Cool. And so we've been hearing your talk just before and you've been talking a bit about content creation independent in this space of working together with all these other bigger players. What do you think going forward will be the next trends for content creators? I mean I think maybe as a lot of content creators know, before this project we really didn't have any connection to the industry. I was doing theater, I was doing branded content and to get into a narrative TV space we just didn't know how to do that. So I think as everyone says, at some point you just have to go make it and hopefully that will, if it's good and it appeals to the right people, you can get noticed that way. So I think the good news is there's more content than ever being created and that's good for people like us who have an idea that hopefully shines through the crowd. Yeah and I think one of the cool things is both brands and I think networks and platforms are realizing the same thing at the same time, which is that ultimately if you have a good story people will continue watching. And so brands that had previously been focused on really advertising their product with whatever media they created and networks that were overly focused on oh demographically who does this appeal to or whatnot are coming around to this idea that if you actually legitimately and authentically tell a story that people haven't seen before, it's good for whatever company it's associated with. Yeah the most effective content, whether it's branded or an original story, is content that people want to watch despite who's paying for it. And I think that's, if it is ultimately branded content, that's actually still good for the brand. If someone watches it, they connect to the story or the characters and then it was presented by so and so. Makes sense. So as content creators, you were talking about you have to create content that people want to watch. So how do you know if people want to watch what you're about to create? I think it's always a little bit of a leap of faith knowing if people are going to like what you create. I think that was something, you know, you obviously have thoughts about what you like. And in the project that we did, I think I just had to go about making it the way that I thought would be good and the way that I thought I would like and just hope that enough other people would like it because I don't have the magic formula for making something good. Yeah, I mean, and I think honestly like I don't have much of a choice as far as what stories I get obsessed with. So I just have to have that like blind faith that like there's going to be someone else out there who feels the same way that I do because I can't, I mean, and I don't think anyone who's a storyteller really can, like you were saying, game out the system or figure out what people are going to be really into next. But what they can do is just be completely animated by this idea that they're obsessed with and they can slave on it for, you know, years before anyone else comes to it. But then you hope that in the end of that, your passion for the project comes through and once in a while it lines up with what a large enough group of people are interested in that it takes off. So how do you think that this or what do you think that this will mean for brands who want to collaborate with content creators who have this insights or will they be better at themselves following this kind of gut feeling or? I mean, I think it's it I've been doing promo videos on YouTube for eight years and I think it's, you know, with every new client, it's, you know, sometimes takes longer or shorter time, but to sort of build that trust where they're going to let me do something that maybe seems a little bit weird or funky at first. I think that's my dream is when the brand will come to me and say, you know, you have such a track record of doing this well that we will trust this crazy idea that we can't really imagine coming to life. But but we trust you. But we trust you. So I think, you know, the more you know, I think I would love to get to a place where, you know, I'm working with creative marketing people and at brands who want to tell stories and we can sort of, you know, and try and trust us to do that in the way that we think creates good content. Do you think that that is the future? Are we already there or is that or will it take longer before brands are ready for that? I think we're halfway there. I think I still do a lot of job client work where someone will tell me sort of a rule for how long or short it should be or that you need to capture someone's attention in the first two seconds or things like this where I understand why those rules are created and I understand why people are thinking about it. But also sometimes it feels like, you know, that doesn't take into account sort of the full extent of what the video needs to be or what the story needs to be. I think everything is unique and I've had things go viral that were on the longer side. And then people tell me, well, it's not going to go viral if it's over one minute long. So I think actually, you know, I saw some Super Bowl ads that had five minute versions of them online and I think that is happening more and more. But also, you know, that's sort of a trend that's been happening in the last few years and is continuing to develop. Does that make sense? Yeah, totally. Yeah, I was thinking, do you think, how do you think that this impacts the way that your content will be distributed or like both independent but also for brands? And how does it impact the format if it's more going to be storytelling in episodes and not just like single independent pieces? I mean, I think it all depends on what the content is. Like, you know, as a director, like if it's a completely narrative thing, I start with a script. If it's a brand, you start with what is the message they're trying to get across? And then how do you tell a story which does that? And it's sort of layering on top of that. Yeah, I mean, and I think and this is probably like overly idealistic, but even in the case of brands, like the hope is that it gets to the point where they're, they recognize the value in just being associated with good content, you know, so it's so it's even less about like you could approach a branded video in the same exact way that you'd approach a narrative video, which is like, oh, this is a great script, tangentially, maybe it's a little bit more of a to do with a product might not even but but that brand association will be worthwhile for whatever company you're working for. So I think it's great because it's an opportunity to it's just like another venue in a way for more content, you know, there's there's like a ton of money in branded. And if if that can be leveraged to tell interesting stories, I think that's wonderful, you know. Totally. Do you think that brands will be more inclined going forward to have content creators like you guys in house permanently? Or will they just be better at collaborating on a continuous basis? Yeah, I think I think the like the freelance model makes more sense to me in this context, because it is it is more about, oh, like, let's let's let's get our hands on a really interesting story and associate ourselves with it, you know, as a brand rather than, oh, we have like in house marketing people or we have in house video people who that expertise, I think the advantage to doing that is then that's when you're developing really specific content for that look at it. I think that it leverages a brand in a very particular way. But at least my hope I like I don't know, I really don't know. But like, I hope that the model is like, let's reach out to Oh, this cool, interesting artist just did this short film or just did this, you know, feature length or just did this independent pilot. Why don't we bring them in and have them do that thing for, you know, tide or something like that, you know, so. Yeah, I think I do think a lot of places are trying to bring more of it in house. And I do think that because of the DSLR revolution, etc. You can make stuff, you know, on an iPhone or a DSLR camera that looks really, really good. And so sometimes it feels swimming upstream for me, I would like to do things that have more bigger budgets and bigger crews and more resources available. But I also think, you know, as a producer, if I'm hiring a DP, I would rather have the DP who just came off of a really cool looking indie film. Then the DP who really all they want to do is make commercials for brands actually, I think the most interesting good people have a variety of interests and want to jump around to stuff. So that's why there was a point at which I sort of thought to myself, oh, do I need to get a permanent job at one of these in-house places? And I'm really hoping that's not the case because I get bored easily and I'd rather, you know, tell stories that I'm good at when a brand, you know, when that sort of syncopates with what a brand is trying to do and when I'm right for it. Awesome. Thank you so much. This was really good. Thank you.