Scaling Webinar Strategy

Great 部 by Refill Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks a lot. And please bring bring the slides to to the screen as well. And then I can I can start. I can introduce myself a little bit further. I'm not sure if you can see my slides yet. At least I can't. But yes, it's correct. I have a background in medicine. I've worked for Novo Nordisk for seven and a half years, and I actually just switched jobs, and I'm heading up our customer experience team. For those of you who might not be so familiar with Novo Nordisk, Novo Nordisk is a global drug manufacturing company. We are behind brands such as Osempic and Wegovi, and we have a more than 100-year-old legacy in mainly diabetes treatment, but during recent years, we have moved into obesity treatment as well, which really has shaped also our go-to-market strategy and how we acquire new customers. Just checking in with you, Amelia, I cannot see my slides on the screen as well. I only see something gray. I can see your slides perfectly as well as your little headshot in the corner. Okay, so if you feel safe about me proceeding, then I'll do because I have a little speaker window as well. So if we are ready to go, and also I really appreciate your questions and comments during my talk here, and also feel free to connect on LinkedIn. Then you can scan the QR code, so feel free to connect and send me a heads up if you want to. So I want to make very clear that actually when we started doing webinars, we actually didn't have a strategy for webinars. We have now, and I will talk you through this story in a few moments. But first of all, when it comes to education, and marketing, from my point of view, it's basically two sides of the same coin because they share a purpose. So for education, the purpose is to give the recipient or the customer the competency to perform a certain task. And on the other hand, the purpose of marketing is to influence the same recipient or customer to adopt a certain behavior. And from my point of view, at least when we are talking medicine, you cannot have one without the other, at least that would be unsafe and not very clever. And those of you who work in this field will know that when these two fields meet and it goes well, then you call it content marketing, which is an extremely efficient tactic when it comes to customer acquisition, when it comes to top funnel tactics. But it can also be used to drive depth within already acquired segments, for example, by expanding product use, or by expanding the scope of the product. And that's what we're going to talk about today. And I hope I'll be coming back to that. But as I mentioned before, in no knowledge education, we try to play on as many strings as possible. So we do a lot of different education initiatives from classic congress and events, face to face meetings, on demand videos, talk shows, podcasts, newsletters, e-learnings, you name it. Virtual or webinars is just part of it. And as I mentioned before, Novo Nordisk is a hundred year old company. So we are not a digital native company. We are very face to face native company and our education efforts, they started long ago before there was anything called a webinar. But as many of you might as well have experienced, something happened in 2020, if you remember as long back as that. So you all know COVID and we do definitely as well. So in 2020, we had a very big and very important product launch mid-year that we started pre-launching around Easter. And Denmark, which is the market I'm concerned with, closed down in March. So we basically had almost overnight to reinvent our launch strategy. And as we didn't have an established alternative to face to face, we had to come up with one real quick, which was of course, virtually based and where webinars was a super pivotal tool to engage as many customers in this product launch as possible. We needed to act fast and then be able to scale pretty fast. And I'll try to show you on the next slide, the kind of evolution about these webinars. So we started out simple. You can see the left corner here. That's my home office at that time. You can also see that we invested a little bit into it with some little bit of light and a little bit of extra stuff. But then quite quickly, we scaled it down. Because we could see, okay, there was actually a little bit of a customer desire for doing webinars. So we invested more and more and our setup became more and more comprehensive. And each time we developed a new webinar or e-meeting concept, we started small, then we piloted, then we scaled, re-evaluated. So we had this circle going on all the time of testing, improving, scaling. And I think that was really much a part of our success. We didn't dive in the deep from the very get go. And so I think, yeah, just to repeat, we started small, but we scaled very fast. I think within a month, we went from the setup on the upper left to the one on the lower left with full media production that we sent out. And what came out of it was that we were actually able to transform, for example, education events from a full day meeting to a series of four webinars of one and a half hour. We also had one meeting concept that was two full days that we compressed to a five hour broadcast, which today sounds totally crazy to have a five hour webinar. But we actually managed to succeed with it and to engage our participants throughout that entire day by doing tips and tricks throughout the webinar to engage the participants a lot, to have a lot of change of scenery during the day, to mix the formats with something pre-recorded, something live, some one too many presentations, some panel discussions and so on and so forth. And we made it a really good experience for the customers. And today, as Emilie alluded to, we have a monthly webinar. It's planned almost a year in advance. So we have a pipeline so that when the customer signs up for webinar, they are actually signed up for the series of webinars. So it's easy for them to jump on and off the webinars when we send it. Concept for these webinars is that roughly 50-50 is really supporting the core business strategy with topics that are central to our operations. And then the other half of the webinars is more inspirational or you can call it market developmental because we take on subjects that's a little bit more far from the core of our business. Strategy and it actually serves like you can almost see it as you can say, double diamond or an accordion that you move in and out. So so every other is directed to to the lower funnel and every other to the top of the funnel. And that actually works very well in terms of customer acquisition and moving customers down, down the funnel. And yeah, I'll just do like this. Yeah. So and this is just what we have been doing. And the next thing I want to talk about is actually even more interesting, I would say, because that's about what have we learned? And we have learned a lot during the last four and a half years of doing webinars. And I will try to take you through it on the next few slides here. So first of all, one learning that I don't think you can do is you can underestimate is that there are some problems that webinar can solve. And there are some problems that webinars definitely cannot solve. And I've tried to outline it here and I will be diving a little bit more into into into the soft points here. So first of all, webinar webinars is super efficient to scale. And I actually mean a few things when it comes to scalability. First of all, if you have a niche topic, then webinars is a super good tactic to solve it because you can reach all of the niches in one go despite them being distributed over, for example, a large geographical area. So it would most likely be impossible to hold a one and a half hours meeting about a subject that's super niche. If people were from around the country. But when you have a webinar, you are able to to broadcast it to a much wider geography. Then another form of scalability is if you have a really hot topic, but you only have one keynote speaker, then webinar is also for us the go to solution because we cannot bring one top speaker to 20, 30 events all around the country. They wouldn't do that. I wouldn't myself. So there are webinars is an extremely effective way of of scale for these these kind of hot topics or hot speakers. Then the next thing I believe that webinars is very, very good at solving that flexibility. Webinars give us a completely different opportunity to be flexible when it comes to time of the day. Then you content creation, how we can go about the learning room, how we can engage the participants. Sometimes it's actually an advantage that the participants are anonymous. If you're discussing a more sensitive topic, then it's it's much easier engaging them and having them asking difficult questions. If they are anonymous than if they were there in in person. And then and as I was also talking to before for us, webinars is very effective as lead generation because we can advertise broadly on, for example, social media for our webinars. And we can accept much lower value customers or leads that end up being called on webinars that we wouldn't be able to on face to face educational events. So it's a really good way of of engaging these new leads or new customers to see if it actually makes sense to move them down the funnel. Or we should just continue offering them online education that as you're all familiar with, it doesn't have an increased cost with the increased participation. And then the last bullet here is content creation. One of the things, given the digital nature of webinars, is that it's super easy to create content from webinars. I mean, you can just you can put it online if you want to do so. Our experience is that if you put a full webinar online, nobody will watch it. But if you cut it into pieces of two to five minutes, then you will actually have a very good consumption rate of of of some of the topics that that you are talking to in in the webinars. So in my opinion, these four bullets are the problems that webinars can solve. But there are definitely also problems that your webinars will not help you solve and where you should really move with caution. So the first thing is you shouldn't consider a webinar as a cost cutting exercise. Because if in my best experience, you have to invest in a good setup, you have to invest in if you are if you want to engage your customers over a long period of time, you need to invest in a professional setup, like the ones that I showed you on the pictures to the right in the slide, that is our current setup, where we have a full production team. So for us, for it to break even, compared to a face to face event, we need to have more than around 40-50 participants, then there is a break even and, and you only save on cost if you go above that. And if you have an even more comprehensive setup, if you want to do format makes if you want to have green screen anything, you need to be around approximately 100 customers for it to even break even compared to a face to face event. And I think I've seen too many webinars where the quality of production was was super low. And it's simply not worth watching. If the production is too cheap. Then the second thing that I really believe can cause headaches. You cannot fix a bad speaker by putting him behind the camera, it actually only makes things worse. And I will argue that the speakers you select for a webinar needs to be 25% better than those you will bring to a face to face event. Because everything is saturated when you are online. So if the speaker is not in person really good at engaging with a wider audience, if they don't have a lot of charisma, if their speaker quality is low, it will only be much, much, much worse. If it's online. That also goes to how how the speakers create their slides. It's quite intentional that I didn't bring a lot of bullet points, I didn't bring graphs or tables or anything to these slides because they were they work maybe remotely semi okay, if you are face to face. But if you are virtual, then forget it, it doesn't work. So bad speakers, bad slides are even worse when it also comes to subjects. Things doesn't get more entertaining by being put on a screen. And in a few slides, I will be talking more into this. It's about what are the expectations that the customer have when they are sitting in front of this screen? What are you when you broadcast a webinar? What are you competing against? And then the last thing I want to say is that if you have a bad tech stack, then webinars might not help you a lot, it might only create a lot of headaches for you. If you don't have systems integration, if you have, yeah, whatever in your tech stack that doesn't work, if you don't have integration with your CRM system or whatever, then then webinars can can just make stuff more difficult for you. And then I'll go on to a slightly different topic, but it's about the content for webinars. And it's about respecting the differences between webinars and face to face. I think I have experienced an awful lot of scenarios where, for example, for Congresses, classical, traditional Congress speak is a speaker for 15 minutes standing in front of his slides, not doing a lot. It works a little bit in face to face, but it doesn't work at all on webinars. And I'd like to compare it if you look at the top of the slides here. That's a very big difference between a theater and a cinema. It wouldn't be really entertaining if you just put a single camera in front of Hamlet and broadcast it that to people, people would most likely don't like to watch it. If you want to have something on screen, then you should produce it as a movie. And the same kind of metaphor I use below here where you can see there's a pretty big difference between how you watch news on television and how you read news in the newspaper. It wouldn't be really entertaining or really effective if you just had a news anchor read today's issue of The New York Times. It wouldn't work. So you need to adapt when you move to a digital space. And one of the reasons behind that is you need to know your competition when you are when you have people in front of them, of their screens. And for me, there are two fundamentally different situations. So on the left of this slide is if you choose to send out your webinar outside normal working hours, then your competition is either streaming or social media or whatever, or quality time with family. It's a really tough competition. So you really need to tailor your content, your production, whatever you do on this webinar to to to compete with these. It should be worth watching so that people don't just switch to Netflix if you want them to to actually watch your webinar. On the right hand of the slide is if you choose to broadcast a webinar during working hours. Well, then on the top, you have the competition from the Outlook inbox where and I hope I'm not calling too many of you guys watching out. But I would bet that a few of you might have flicked a little bit back and forth your inbox and this webinar during my presentation. And I'm afraid. But but you need to figure that out. So you need to be really engaging for people not to to fall into to the Outlook trap. And on the lower end here, I have to put in a picture of traffic jam, because if you sent and this might be the case for this webinar, at least if I'm not I'm happy I'm not the one for for the next hour here, because that would be the natural time of day where people would get in. To their cars, move back home. So they fundamentally have to choose between, OK, should I leave work and get home and what the webinar there or should I stay longer at work? And if you end out, then you can also choose to go right between and then you can direct your webinar so that it actually is possible to have it as audio only broadcast, because then people can consume it while they are in the car. But I think it's extremely important to know that when people are in front of a screen, they have a completely different set of expectations as to what is going on, what is competing for their attention and time. So I believe people should be really mindful of that. And then lastly, I guess everybody or at least the majority of people here, they know this frame by JFK, ask not what your country could do for you, ask what you can do for your country. And I actually have the same mantra in there in my team where we say ask not what your customers do can do for you, ask what you can do for your customers. I think that's extremely important when you do a webinar. Always think about what's in it for the customer. Otherwise, you will drop them in a second. That was the end of my presentation and feel free to post questions. I'd be really happy to receive them. Amazing. Thank you so much for your lovely presentation and excellent insights. I've definitely seen a little bit of action in the chat. So I think we're going to take time for at least one question, maybe two. But I have Lopke in the chat. Hi, Lopke. Thank you for engaging. Yes. So you mentioned that you use webinars. To bring customers down the funnel. What webinar formats work at different stages of the funnel and webinar formats? Like I mentioned earlier, we have a session on webinar formats tomorrow at 2 p.m. So if you're curious to hear more about that, please come and join us in that session. But Jens, if you have any tips and tricks on how you create some variety in your webinars, what would be your insights into different types of webinar formats? That you use? It's a super good question. I think that our format is pretty inflexible, I'd say. But I think for us, it's more about what are the kind of speakers we bring and what are the kind of subjects we cover, depending on where we are in the funnel. So I can say from our side, at least, if we want to work at the top of the funnel, then we will choose subjects that might be a little bit more soft. In our world, that could be, for example, psychological barriers towards insulin treatment. Or it can be something like, actually, tomorrow we'll be broadcasting a webinar that's a Christmas special. So the correlation between obesity and liver disease and diabetes. And that works in the top of the funnel. Also, when we work more on the top of the funnel, we would use speakers that might be more widely known to the public, or at least to the customer group. If we can get something that looks a bit like an influencer or a top key opinion leader or something in that ballpark, we would use that more for the top of funnel activities. So that title and the speaker in itself would be attractions. So that's the funnel. We become more concrete towards solving the problem. That could, for example, be how do you treat disease in the heart at your patients that lives with obesity or overweight. That could be a topic or recent guidelines for treating type 2 diabetes. So that becomes much more narrow. It becomes much more concrete. It becomes much more action oriented. I think that would be my take on this question. Thank you so much for your answer, Jens. I actually think the synergy is quite beautiful because it almost complements the classical marketing funnel that we all know that you start wide and then it becomes a little bit more niche as you move down the funnel. Thank you so much for sharing your insights. I would like to move to Minka's presentation just so we can make sure that we have time for some Q&A there as well. Please give a digital hand of applause to Jens in the reaction feature while we get ready for Minka on the stage. So next up. Yes, beautiful. We can hear you. We have an experienced marketer who advises clients on scaling content programs. And Minka will be sharing some strategic insights from Folien who have done excellent with their webinar strategy. Can I bring Minka up on the screen with me? Perfect. Hi, how are you doing, Minka? I'm well, thank you. It was super nice to listen to Jens' story. So also very happy to contribute my perspective to scaling webinars. Yeah, definitely. But I'm not going to ramble on anymore. I'm going to leave the stage to you. So please take it away. And I'm excited to hear what you have to say. Great. Thank you, Amelia. All right. Let me share my screen. Maybe I can get a quick nudge if it's visible. Yes, great. Cool. Well, yeah, as we all know already, we're here to talk about scaling webinar strategy. I will specifically share the perspective from Folien. I'll do a quick introduction, then share how it started with us, how it's going to where we're standing today, and also what is next, what the future holds for us. But also there, I would really like to emphasize the key tips and tricks that I would like to share with you. So let's start with a quick intro. I'm Minka. I'm director of customer marketing at Folien. I've been in this role for a year. It also means that a lot of the legacy or the past around webinars is not done by me, but I know what has happened. So that's something I will share. Folien is a content creation platform. Actually, this presentation that I'm sharing is built in our own tool, but it can be used for building white papers, lead gen forms, presentations, but also annual reports. So it's quite a wide tool, which also makes my role quite challenging because I'm supporting everything post-sales. And basically anyone can use Folien. So also if we think about our marketing strategy, we call it like a horizontal approach. That can be quite a challenge to be specific. On the right, a couple of points about me. I believe I'm quite a data-driven decision maker. I enjoy optimizing processes and I always explore endless opportunities. I heard Jens already talking a bit about also repurposing content or one of the questions in the chat. Definitely one of my passions. So I will share more on that as well. There's a QR code if you want to connect on LinkedIn. I will also share the presentation at the end, so then you can also find it later. So let's dive into the topic. So it's indeed nice, I think, to start with what I actually see as scaling. And I listed here four things, but I think scaling can be much more. But to start with, you can scale by producing more webinars, so increase the volumes. But you can also scale by growing the team doing webinars. And this is not always necessarily related to doing more webinars, but it could also be around professionalizing your webinars. So I heard Jens talking about this whole kind of like studio setup. That could definitely be a way where you need a little bit more people involved where you're basically stepping up your game. But also it could be that you want to continue the same amount of webinars, but you just want to grow the attendance. To make sure you get more out of the one webinar or the couple webinars that you're doing. And lastly, very important from a business perspective, is to increase your ROI out of webinars. During my presentation, I'll try to cover all of these areas a little bit. Not very explicitly, but you will notice that these will be common themes throughout the rest of the presentation. So let's start with how it started. So as I mentioned, I wasn't there when we started. In 2019, we really started to pick up webinars. Quite some time ago, back then, it was very much product oriented. So mainly were how-to webinars. If you are starting with webinars, I think it's also the perfect way to start because most likely you have a product and you want to explain how it works. But the downside of it, it does result in a bit of a narrow audience. It may not be super relevant for prospects. In our case, we did a lot of kind of like one-off webinars. So it was very specific to one topic, but there was not really like a cohesion between the different webinars that we were doing. So not really a red thread or a storyline. And also what we didn't really do back then was kind of like a follow-up flow. So I will talk about this more during the presentation, but I think when you have the interest of someone, make sure to make most out of it. And that's something I think we were underusing in the beginning. So then it's nice to know where we're standing today. So where we're standing today is what really improved is that we're mixing up the type of webinars a lot. So we're trying to be a little bit more thought leader oriented, have topics that could be interesting from a customer perspective, but also from a prospect perspective. Also try to build the webinar as being a bit of a centerpiece of a campaign or basically build a campaign around the webinar. This sounds pretty straightforward, but what we also learned and noticed is that if you just have a webinar in itself, that's not going to necessarily be the key reason for a customer to join. But if it's sort of like integrated in a full campaign, cross-channel campaign about a certain overarching topic, yeah, that works really well. And it's also a bit in line with also what Jens was saying around repurposing your webinar, for example, into smaller video snippets on your website or maybe on your socials. It also helps to build out extra assets in the campaign using the webinar. And where I said, okay, we can improve still is a bit of the lead flows follow up from the webinars. We're doing really well on the new business side, which is also, I guess, from a sales perspective, the most profitable or the most needed to drive leads. Since from a customer perspective, we already have the customer success managers, account managers reaching out to our customers anyways. But from a marketing perspective, we can really help with seeing who engaged with our content and what did they do next and how can we actually make sure that that next step is taken either by the account manager or the customer success manager or by the marketing team themselves. So there's a lot of opportunities to still grow. On the next slide, I will share an example of, yeah, this is actually what we have been doing in the summer. We released a big product feature, which was called personalization. And there, yeah, obviously we built a webinar around it. We invited a guest speaker. We also noticed if I just go one step back here, if you look very closely to the results, you can also see that kind of like industry expert session perform much better than let's say internal expert sessions or product updates is a little bit in the middle. In terms of performance is a little bit average. But what we did for the personalization webinar is indeed also invite an industry expert and a customer of us. And after the webinar, we repurposed the webinar into a success story. So we made little snippets out of the webinar, build a whole story around it. And it also provides people who may not be willing to spend 45 minutes watching a webinar. But instead of reading a five to 10 minute story, that could be good enough. Or even the snippets could be shared on social. So people could just have like a one minute, very fast impression of what the story is about. And I think that's if we talk about scaling the impact of your webinar, that's definitely something you should consider in your strategies. Yeah, what's also nice to know is a little bit the number. So where are we sending today? So we have done over 100 webinars in five years time. This also included a couple of repurposing webinars. This is what the data in 23 tells us. But also we have 52% attendance rate. And what's important to mention here, the attendance rate is a buildup of live attendees and on the month attendees. So all our webinars are always available on the month on our website. And we do see traffic there as well. So also in this example, I think most of us of the time attendance rates with us lies around like, yeah, 30 to 40%. So that means that there's still quite some percentage of people actually following up on the month could also be a lot of people who may have registered didn't the timing didn't fit in their schedule and then watched it later. But it does prove that people are willing to take the time to consume our content. So I'm very happy to see that. And the same actually applies to the yeah, the average minute you'll think engagement. So that's 34 minutes, which is also quite long, our average webinars would be around 40 minutes. So we do see that a lot of people actually, yeah, stick till the end and continue to to listen in. And then maybe most impressive could be the number on the bottom right. So far, we've only had one person responsible for webinars. And I'm not saying that we, in order to scale, we have to grow this one number. Because I can share a little bit more on that later on what could be a different approach. So what's next for us, we have a couple plans for 2025. And we want to continue building out a full stack on demand library. And why we want to do it is a bit related to the second and the third point, we want to have webinars across all buyer journey stages. So from a customer being a prospect all the way to a customer expanding to another plan, or in all those steps, we want to have webinars available. And we also want to build more webinars, which are a little bit more segmented around thought leader topics. As I mentioned in the introduction, we're a horizontal platform, which means that any customer from any industry can use volume. And we do know what our ideal customer profile looks like. So what specific industries are mainly relevant for folio on or are the best type of customers. And those are the customers for which we do want to build out a little bit more segmented specific topics, because that's going to help us to attract prospects in that ideal customer profile situation. And also it can make sure we can make sure that we support our best performing customers. And also why we want to build an on demand library is also which I'm going to share later on. basic aspect of an online tutorial content system, you want to haveXpaces as an alternative discerning of the customer expansion, but in the sense of prospects, lead triggers to generate leads for our business. This is an example of a campaign that we're currently running. We do a bit of a Spotify rep, but then a Folion rep, where we have one Folion doc, so it's similar to the presentation I'm sharing right now, but then it's super personalized with all data points on how they used our products. And that should also be used a bit as a teaser to say, do you want to know more? Join us for the webinar. And this webinar is very much about us, about how we are evolving the product, what's the product roadmap for next year. But what is quite nice here, which you can see on the right, during the signup for the webinar, we already try to already measure a bit of the interest of the customer, which can have a benefit for two things. So first of all, it can benefit us from knowing what the customer wants us to talk about during the webinar, which is going to be helpful to create the right content for your audience. But it could also already lead to building a bit of engagement before the webinar is actually there. In this case, there's quite a long time before the people can register and the webinar takes place. So we sent out this Folion doc like two weeks ago, and the webinar is going to take place at the end of January. So we also don't want to be silent. I think it's very important that whenever someone shows an interest in your content, that you do make sure that you follow up on it. It would be a waste to ignore it like, OK, this person registered fine. We're going to wait until January if they maybe show up. And if you use the time in between to actually engage with your customer, it could also be a perfect way to get a bit more of sort of like buy in or more stronger commitment to actually join the live session. So I think that's also what you should not underestimate to utilize. And also in this example, this is actually the one that you see on the right is a webinar we did in the past. And the one that is on the left is actually the one that we are promoting at the moment. So what's interesting here is that you can also have within one campaign multiple angles. So the first is very much focused on these are our two company founders. They're going to share what the company will be focusing on in the next year. So it can be kind of like Folion's future. But the whole way that we promoted this was in a year in review or kind of like a wrapped format. And also that format we're promoting in a webinar for our customers to explain how they can do a similar approach as well. So I think that's also interesting use of different webinars, but related to kind of like the same topic or purpose in your campaign. So based on how we are doing things, as I said, it's also very nice to hear from Jens how he has organized things. But I think this is our advice from the company size that we are to you. First of all, very straightforward, but know your audiences. It's even something that we tend to forget every now and then. But they are like we do this for them. If we don't know what they want, it doesn't really make sense. So this is really going to help you to make data driven decisions in your webinar strategy. So if you want to know your audience, there are some key considerations that you have to understand, like what is the time both like when you host a webinar, but also what is the time investment from the person who is consuming the content? What is their interest and their expertise and what level of interaction is there? What is the person looking for or the person? It's hard to create for one person, but let's say the persona or the user segments. So, for example, let's take an example of decision maker, maybe C-level persona. They probably have a very busy schedule. So it's less likely that they will be able to join something during office hours. So you are more likely to host it outside of office hours. They also don't have a lot of time. You need to make the content very specific and very relevant for them. So really understanding this and then also remember, what do you want to get out of it? Because you're asking them to invest time. So make sure it's very clear that what it will bring them, but also what will it bring you? Yeah, that's just super important. And again, I'm very data driven. I like to look at data, but data is also just an indication. So I'm looking at different formats and different timelines, everything basically. Just find what works for your audience. Then my second recommendation is to scale through others. I've mentioned it a couple of times already, but work smarter. That's basically the best way to scale. So something that we have also set up is trying to use our customer representatives and partnerships. We have resellers reselling Folium to basically share the story that we have prepared for them. So it can be in the form of recorded content, what I just mentioned around the on-demand webinars, but it could also just be presentation slides and a script and also guide them on the right tooling and prepare a how-to guide. So what you see here on the right is a little bit, yeah, a how-to deck that we have internally. And it's funny that Jans said something around kind of like cheap technology or a cheap production. That's a no-go. I may have a bit of a different stance here. I do think that, you know, start with using Zoom or screen recording would be for these kind of people fine. They are not marketers, even though that is a little bit pain in my heart. Being a marketer, everything should be on brands and that's something we should promote. But I also believe you should make it low barrier. If you do want to scale, this is a way to scale. And, you know, even with a Zoom meeting, so many webinars are basically just two people talking and it could be super valuable. If the content is right. So it doesn't always have to be a perfect studio experience. Also, if you think about the own investment that you need to put into it. And then my third and last recommendation, I'm saying exploit content engagement. And this is a bit what I've already been telling as well in our own experiences, but use the data that you have and exploit it the best you can. So for example, if a customer is registering to a webinar, use that registration form to already get insights. That is relevant for you. Also start thinking, what are you going to do with the insights? Because if it's just sort of like interesting, but you're not really actioning it, it's more like noise, but try to be specific and try to think what it could mean for you and your business. But similarly, if people are behaving on your website or visiting your blog content or success stories or engage like a like or comments, your social media, these could all be triggers to indicate that a customer is interested in a specific topic. So before they even sign up for that webinar, there could be triggers where we could already know that this webinar could be very relevant for them. So it's a way to also engage them with the webinar outside of, so to make sure, for example, your audience or attendance rate will grow. This is a way to do a little bit more of a personalized or targeted outreach. We're using HubSpot, which is very helpful for this, but there are definitely other ways to know. But of course, it would be good to also take this as skilled as possible in terms of automated workflows. And yeah, so to conclude, three key takeaways from my side, know your audience, scale through others and exploit content engagement as much as possible. And that's really going to help you to scale your webinar strategy. I do have a last remark. I know we're here today for webinars, but definitely, definitely try to mix it up with an offline community strategy. This is something we have started a little bit last year, but this year, the coming year, we're really going to push hard on this because even when you have the engagement from a webinar and you see that people are specifically interested in a topic or to explore more, that could be a great reason to invite them to an offline event, a conference, or have a breakfast session or a dinner. There is so much possible to also meet the people in person. We still notice, again, if you think about the return on investment for the business, the interpersonal connections are really strong. And if you are interested to know more about how we do this, tomorrow, my colleague Lopke will be speaking at the webinar days, and she's going to be responsible for the online and offline strategy for our customers. And that's it. So thanks a lot for listening to my story. Feel free to scan the QR code. You will have direct access to this presentation. And you will be first asked to give a bit of feedback, which is going to help me to know if it was relevant for you. Thank you so much, Minkia. You're like a seasoned pro. You're even asking for feedback to your presentation. I love that level of maturity. And we actually have an excellent question from Lopke that I would love to share with both of you. So I'm going to ask the two of you to join me for a panel. Don't worry, you don't have to take any action. My producer will help me bring you guys onto the screen again. Hi, thank you both for your lovely presentations. We have a couple of minutes before we round off for the hour. So I just quickly wanted to sneak in this last question for the both of you. And Minkia, I'm going to ask you for a couple of minutes. First, because the question is coming from Lopke. So hopefully you already have a couple of thoughts around this. And then Jens, I'm going to ask you the same question later so you can think about it for a minute. But it seems like Folign is doing great or very well with their webinars, which I can confirm. Yes, you are. Where do you envision to improve or scale for the future in 2025? And I think this is an interesting question. So if you can give just a very short answer to what you think. If you can give us a few minutes to think about what is in the future for webinars at Folign, then we'll give Jens a minute to think about his answer. Yeah, I can be pretty short about it. I think for us, it's really going to be around scaling through others. So making sure that we enable the right people to be able to host webinars on our behalf. And that's really how we're going to make a difference in 2025. Perfect. Short and sweet. I love it. Jens, would you be up for answering the same question? Yeah, sure. I think we want to expand or scale by going into more specific sub-segments of our customers. So bringing subjects that are a little bit more geeky, that goes a little bit more in-depth and might be a little bit less accessible for the wider customer universe. I appreciate that a lot. Here on 23, we also consider ourselves toolmakers. So some of the topics for our webinars can become a little geekier. But once you have the right audience for those webinars, it's just so much energy and it's so much fun to be a part of. Thank you both so much for participating in this webinar and sharing your insights. It's been a pleasure to have you both. And I hope to see you again. Next year. Thank you, Amelia. Yeah, thanks a lot. Have a great rest of your day. Thank you. Bye. Super. And now we are ending or we're nearing the end of the day. We're not fully done yet, though. We just completed the third session of today. And we will be continuing in just a short moment with the last session of today, you're at four o'clock Central European time. Last but not least, we have webinars today with Anne Handley. So please stay tuned in the webinar room and you'll be automatically redirected. And I will meet you over there in just a short minute. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.