Reflections from a Journey Scaling Webinars

2019, Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Webinar Days is hosted and organized by 23. And if you don't happen to know us, our video tools are used by marketers at growth companies to some of the largest enterprise companies in the world to do video and webinars. And I'm so proud that for the fifth consecutive year, we are running Webinar Days together with you with the aim to move the market forward. But we have a very special theme this year. The theme of Webinar Days 2024 has been webinars scaled. And it's exactly that we've been exploring. So answering questions as why is it important to scale your webinars and what scaling of webinars means to you and your organizations and how some of the greatest brands in the world have already succeeded with this. And our aim is, of course, that you will be ready to scale your webinars when 2025 comes around. If you don't know our platform from previous sessions, please just let me introduce it quickly. We have our chat over here. I encourage you to get to know your peers. It's always fun to have those small chats that you would otherwise have over a cup of coffee. And if you have any questions for our speakers, please refer to the speaker feature just above the chat. And we will happily take your questions. I just want to take a moment to thank all the wonderful speakers we've had over the last few weeks. the two days who have helped thousands of video marketers and webinar producers all over the world really improve their webinar efforts. But let's get into the session. I think we're ready. So next up, we have Lasse Høfeldt, a globally recognized leader in video innovation for an inspiring session reflecting on his journey with Yusuke Bank. So in 2008, Lasse transformed Yusuke Bank's communication department into an award-winning online TV station. Maybe not the most typical for most banks, but it was called Yusuke Bank TV, and it set the stage for banks' groundbreaking use of video and webinars. And he will be joined by Thomas Matson-McDell, co-founder and CEO of 23, the only European player in the global video software fields. So lean back and enjoy as these two digital pioneers reflect on a journey of scaling webinars. Thank you, and welcome to this fireside chat today where we have a very special guest at a very special time. Lasse Høfeldt is a true pioneer in video. 18 years ago, he flipped the comms team around from producing written communication and magazines to doing video and later webinars. He's worked for Yusuke Bank, one of the most leading digital banks in Europe, for more than 35 years, over half of that journey doing and moving the company on video. And today, we're joining him just a month after he stopped at Yusuke Bank. So we're blessed a little bit with an opportunity to have a very frank and open and reflective discussion. So Lasse, it's so great to have you here. It's a pleasure to see you and welcome to the closing of Webinar Days. Thank you so much, Thomas. We should disclose also that for at least the last 10 years or so, you've been powered by 23. Absolutely. So we've also worked and known each other for many years at this point and discussed video extensively. And welcome to your new life. Yeah, very interesting. Yeah, a big decision in my life to quit the bank, but I think the timing was right. And I need to try something else and new ideas and new dreams. You've done an incredible 35 years, and I think that's very inspirational for many people on being committed to really working and moving a place. So we wanted today to talk a little bit about webinars and scaling webinars. But as Emilie said in the introduction, you sort of started on video and live streaming originally. For the work you've done, you received endless amounts of European and American communication awards for this very pioneering and defining project, probably one of the key sort of innovators on video. You're up there with TED.com that moved the conferences to be an online video thing and this example of iconically moving the bank from written magazines and flipping budgets. Great story. So I don't know if we just start a little bit because I think it's such an incredible story. And just share a little bit about kind of where you started. You've been in the bank for, you know, let's say 16, 17 years at this point when the journey on video starts. And you've been working very closely as the head of communication next to the bank CEO, a very trusted relationship. How did this start? And what was it you did back then that triggered it? And how did you make it come through? Because it was such an iconic shift, which I also think explains all the awards you got because it was such a sort of symbol of the shift to video. Yeah, for sure we were early out there. We began in 2004 and 5 to think about how can we use social media and the new digital world. And instead of using a lot of money on print magazines and get them distributed around the country, we thought there must be a way to do that. And we had a strong belief that the media landscape would shift because we could see that the legacy media would change, the social media would come. So we would have the opportunity to be our own media. There was the mantra back then, every company is a media company. And that perspective took we early and we thought we could do it if we focused on just producing video. So we dropped all written communication back then and started building studios, which was difficult back then. It's not like today where we have a pretty nice setup here, but it's small compared to what we built back then because we wanted to produce content that was faithful to the brand. And we want the bank to be a brand with respect, with quality and with a difference. So we built a TV studio set up on the same level as the national broadcasters. And how did you get the management approval on this? I think there's also an incredible story that you had kind of a free formula in your budget that you managed to sort of flip around. So it was not that you were looking for more money, you just managed to actually flip all the money around to beat the video. Yeah, yeah. And that's what happened as a change maker because I mean, I think that's what a lot of the people viewing here, they want to do that in their company. But how do you get a decision like that to come home? There is one extremely important point and that's what's called the big yes from the CEO. You need the CEO in the project. And even more back then because of the budgets. But right, there was no new money in it. We took it from the printed magazines and transformed it into building the studios. But still today, you need the CEO in because it's such a strategic focused challenge you're taking. So other companies who did try to do the same as we did back then closed down pretty fast because it's so experimental. And it's hard on a short term base to see the KPIs. Is this a good idea? For years, it was a gut feeling. But we can see in internal, it shaped our culture and we can see externally it shaped our brand as a bank with a difference. Yeah, so originally it was sort of soft KPIs like positioning and the storytelling. I think I had a colleague that visited your bank recently where there was a poster that said the world's only TV station was also a bank or something in that range. And he said, you know, you're a podcast studio, you're producing many hours of content every day, every week, every day, I guess. Yeah, every day. Every day. Talk us through like kind of what was the first sort of version, the first year or two if you visited a TV. What was it you were experiencing back then? Yeah, it was an incredible period because it was October the 1st, 2008. And it was 10 days, two weeks after the Lehman Brothers collapse. So we just jumped right in. To the crisis. Just during the 2008 financial crisis. Yeah. Global financial crisis. Yeah, absolutely. And so there was an extreme demand for content inside the company, but also from our customers, especially on investment. So on a good day, we produced 20, 25 interviews a day about everything from the South American economy to the big companies in the US and of course the Danish economy. Wow. So yeah. Yeah, it was crazy. And then we tested a lot of formats. It was test and learn. There was nobody who has back then done what we did. And some of it were difficult. Back then you couldn't just start a YouTube channel. We have to build our first platform. We built ourselves together with a smaller company and later on we came to 23. But also we just tried different formats, debates, talks. We did shows from the US, all kinds of stuff. And there wasn't... You also bought TV rights at some point to show football games. Yeah, we showed Champions League a game once. Yeah. Just for the fun of it. But it was great fun. Because the thing was sponsoring. Yeah, absolutely. And there was no TV station in Denmark who wanted to broadcast. So, well, then we did. Wow. How do you think back? It must have been, I mean, an incredible sort of innovative time where you're basically making it all up. Nowadays, most of this would be, you know, fairly established. There are so many video formats and companies, YouTube kind of creators. A lot of the stuff you would probably be able to have ref cases for everything you were doing. Back then, your only ref was like broadcast TV, but video was different at the same time. Yeah, we tried to find our edge compared to the broadcasters because, of course, they're so bigger than us and Flow TV was big back then. But we tried to find some kind of public service that wasn't covered by the national broadcasters. So, if there was a niche within kind of the bank's core business, but also other places in the society where we thought this debate or this topic in society must be covered from a TV station. And if the traditional TV station wasn't interested or didn't have the perspective, then we did it. So, we did the political stuff. We did cultural stuff. We were partnered up with music festivals, all kinds of stuff. You were really acting as if you were kind of your own media company. Yeah, absolutely. Incredible. Yeah, I mean, I think, yeah, just blessed that you, I mean, you get to be part of those waves of that kind of early innovation, right? When you don't really realize it while you're in it, how wild it actually is in terms of how much invention and experimentation there's actually going on. I think one of the wildest or craziest thing we did was we actually made a format, Two Houses, One Price, which was a traditional Flow TV format where we, in very early days, integrated Facebook competition within the program. And we sold the program to a national TV station. After that? Yeah, no, it was showed there as the prime, in prime time, I think it was Sunday night, 8 o'clock. And it was, yeah, it was crazy because there was also legal issues. Can a bank do that? Is it commercial? But the big commercial outside the commercial breaks and so on. But yeah, great fun. Amazing. We're going to get a little bit to webinars, but I guess just to link it together. Back then you were doing live streaming. So you could, there was sort of a flow component to it where you were just broadcasting both live, but also rolling all the content you produced, I guess, right? So that was still sort of a more of a flow perspective, I guess, originally, right? Yeah. From the beginning, of course, we did some, traditional production, but from the beginning, we've been doing a lot of live TV. Yeah. Because of the speed to the stock market and so on. So most of what we did for the first 10 years or so were live formats. Yeah. And also kind of to do live to tape, et cetera, for production. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And then eventually get to webinars. So we wanted to talk a little bit today about sort of how to be that kind of innovator also within webinars where you were a true pioneer back then, a little bit about scaling your formats, content generation, and the tools and how webinars really evolved. So I think there's a kind of, where did sort of webinars start for you? What made it interesting in this sort of transition from live streaming into webinars? And we'll get to hearing about all the incredible results you've been part of creating there. Yep. In a strange way, it was by coincidence. Webinar wasn't really on my radar until COVID. And during COVID, we couldn't do physical events. And of course, our customer needs information in another way, and they need the contact with the bank in another way. And we tried the webinar format, and I remember we just had a test deal with you. We wasn't really on the webinar platform, but we tried it. And we could see that there was a kind of a perfect match between our expertise to produce a TV on a broadcast level combined with the webinar, the live format, the interaction. The participation. Exactly. So after testing it for a year or so, we sat down and we brainstormed what could we build, what kind of formats could we build that would be the perfect match and where we could use the webinar platform from the best perspective. And then when I know you, then when you've seen something, then you scale. Then you went for it. Yeah, we got pretty ambitious. And yeah, maybe we could watch an example of what we've done. Yeah, let's see. I think we brought along an example of catching our investment webinar. Investment webinar, yeah. Let's take a quick reel and take a look at that. Investment webinar, yeah. There you go. So this was an investment webinar. Yeah, yeah. Which we call catching because we want to give it some edge. Some edge. Yeah. And as we always do it, we evaluate it all the time. So it's been on air for one and a half year, I think. And we've changed parts of the concept because we could see that it was okay to do some broad trend perspective on the investment market. But when we asked the viewers, they want us to go more narrow and go deep. So we've become more and more nerdy in our content and in the topics we are covering in the magazine or in the webinar. So, for example, instead of doing something broadly on a trend or on a topic and investment, we go deep on Novo Nordisk or we go deep on Carlsberg or we go deep on Bunz where the viewers, our customers, potential customers can be in the company of our very good, or our, the bank's very good experts. We're still trying to get into the ex. But get 25 minutes of learning and Q&A-ing with some of the best experts in the country. Yeah. And that's great. So I think that's so important what you're talking about here because I think that's really what you shared many times, this idea that you really went from the, I mean, also back then, 18 years ago, it's a long time ago. It was sort of more of a broadcaster doing things that were relevant to everyone. Yeah. And now you're going really, really narrow on the webinar side with great, great success. But it's a very, it's almost, you know, it's not about being broad. It's narrow casting. Yeah, it's narrow casting. Absolutely. And there we can find the niches that won't be covered by other media and allow us to have the length, 45 minutes. Yeah. A long time, but we can see people are watching 45 minutes. At average. So, yeah, there's an interest for that. And they're watching it late at night or in the evening. Yeah, yeah. We have 50% watching live and 50% on demand when they want. And then, of course, we do versions for the social media and versions for internal and wrap-up versions and so on. I think another perspective that, I think you had this great metaphor when you were really sort of shifting to webinars, which I guess was also this sort of shift from the sort of the soft KPIs to the, more hard KPIs. I think at one point you told me that now you're going to be sharks. Yeah. And you were going to, you know, get results. And it was about, and then eventually webinars became an amazing lead gen channel for the bank overall. Can you share a little bit about sort of also how that shift was? Because I guess that was also one of the big flips on webinars that you actually were generating leads and sign-ups all the time. And you could really attribute it and you could measure on a much deeper level. Yeah, that's extremely interesting. I've been working with communication or been a marketeer for so long. And you have always fight for your right to be because, oh, we got so many views or we get so many likes on LinkedIn or whatever. And suddenly be in a space where you deliver leads, you deliver names, you deliver permissions to the business units. And that's been an extremely powerful part of the webinar that we actually deliver more leads than the business unit can handle. Oh, so yeah. So, yeah, but yeah. So, that's very comforting. Instead of talking about there was 10,000 or 50,000 views, now there's 1,000 participating the live catching webinar. And so, 1,700 has given us permission to contact them and maybe 100 we can see are prospects or unknowns or probably they're not even customers. And yeah, that's actually, it's a good feeling. And I didn't know it would be that good a feeling, but yeah, because I've already been very comfortable with what we are doing and not in doubt that it was great for the company, great for the bank, great for the customers. But it's also a good feeling that you can put two lines. Here you are. There are no discussion. No discussion. Yeah. And it's very attributable. And because of the webinar, you get people's emails, people have to log in. We could build rather extensive customer journeys in between the two webinars. So, after a webinar about Carlsberg, we will do probably a deep analysis of some of the perspective from the webinar. We will, of course, send the webinar to no shows and also to shows. We'll follow up with something in the newsletter and then we'll start to warm up for invitation to the next webinar. So, we have this rolling all the time and building and building and building audience. Continuously being that positive flywheel. Yeah. And kind of building. And getting our fans around the format. The format. Yeah. Talk us a little bit through all the different formats you've been doing because I know you've been doing very narrow themes. Obviously, you're a broad or you use a bank, is a broad bank in terms of business banking, private finance, investment, private banking, everything institutional, everything covering sort of the whole field. Can you talk us through just a little bit of sort of inspire us with some of the formats you've been testing out? Yeah. Yeah, there's been a lot. There's the big ones about investment and housing, which is the big chunks within a bank. But then there's small segment where it could be about investment in buildings. It could be all kind of niche things that in a digital world, people don't want to go to a physical event. They're rather that glass of tired champagne is that interesting. So, you have to drive 50 kilometers or more to get there. You want to sit at home. You want to watch it live and get into dialogue or you want to watch it when you're able to. But we've also done the crossover when we are at venues. If we are a partner up with an owner sponsor for some events or it's our own events, we have made both a physical event and a webinar event. So, people can come to the venue and be a part of it. I have a discussion with our experts on the stage, but our host is also host for the webinar. So, he or she will be connected to the webinar platform and taking in questions from the viewers there. So, we get double or triple or ten double up participations. Give us a little bit of a look. It's a little bit less to finish up on the sort of the formats. What's the volume that Under Your Leadership, Jyske Bank has been running webinars at per year? I mean, what are we talking per month? That's a tough question. Last year, I think we do two Ka-Chings investment webinars a month. Once the traditional Ka-Ching like this and then we have Ka-Ching Academy, which is, yeah, learning, really deep learning about specific investment tools and so on. And we're doing the same at the housing webinar where they have the broad perspective, how to buy a house abroad or how to be the first time you have to buy a house. And then we do Academy as well to learn how does, yeah, some kind of investment tools, how do you pay for your houses or all kind of also what do you call climate things for the house and so on. So, yeah. So, incredible. And for when you have paid for the production set up and you have the staff, which is all in-house, then it's actually for free. Yeah. So, we don't have to pay any media to bring it out there. We don't have to pay a venue. We don't have to invite people to anything. It's kind of free. So, getting several thousand people to show up at first evening, eight o'clock. Yeah. Yeah. We're testing the time. At the moment, Ka-Ching often is in the morning at nine o'clock and the next housing webinar, which we can see in a minute, is, I think it's seven o'clock in the evening. But I'm pretty sure if I could clone our experts and the host, we should do it, the same webinar, three or four times in a week because that would more than quadruple the attendees because, yeah, maybe you have kids, so it's not a good time, like seven in the evening. So, you prefer 10 in the morning or whatever dynamic. So, there is some perspective there. But should we see the... Let's roll the housing webinar just to give you a little bit of a feel for that one. Thank you. So, this was the open house housing webinar. Yeah, and I apologize. It's in Danish, of course, for an international... It's a little bit local, yeah. Incredible. I think, Lasse, as we probably even get from when we're discussing here, you're really in this transition of not talking on behalf of the bank and getting out of this space. I think we've spent some time together last month and it's so interesting to see this kind of when you've been in this, in one dimension and now you're sort of in this opening up to a lot of new perspectives. So, I think just before we get to Q&A, because I see we have a lot of interesting questions we want to be answering and making sure to answer as many of them as possible. I just think a little bit reflecting on the journey, sort of on what advice you would give to somebody starting out today. You're even now transitioning into the sort of seeing lots of possibilities that perhaps were not bank related. You're getting to see things a little bit from the outside even, or at least perhaps in a few months you'll be fully on the other side. But can you share with us a little bit sort of where you are reflecting on the journey and what you would have done differently or what you've done the same and what advice you would give for somebody? I mean, the paradox here being a lot of companies are perhaps even just a little bit starting to dip their toes in what you've been doing for 18 years. Where are you kind of on your reflective mode here of sort of the journey you've been on and how you see it overall for communication and marketing on the shift to video? That's a good question. I'm thinking that as I started with the mantra, every company is a media company, which has been a bumpy road and some have succeeded and other has failed. And now we are in an interesting social media sphere and we are in an interesting production sphere where it's, if you're clever, quite easy to produce. Content and a very, very high level with a lot of which is very authentic, a lot of appeal, good hostess or all the content creation environment. And I think that in 2025, that could be a tsunami hitting the corporate world and the organization world inspired from the political sphere. Because you can see that the political world in the US and now in Romania, where they are talking about one of the, there's two in the race to become president and one is called the TikTok president. And he probably don't care about legacy media. And Trump certainly doesn't care about legacy media. So I think the political world has been better to adapt into using social media and to be a media company. And I think that's a good question. And I think that's a good question. And I think that's a good question. And I think it's time for companies to be brave and to step in and to believe in that you can get a bigger reach, you can get more leads, you can do better business if you strongly believe in being your own media. Back in the days, we were called the Red Bull of banking. And Red Bull, of course, is... Red Bull TV. Yeah, exactly. Red Bull TV. Red Bull TV. And they have done it on a very, very big scale. But I think there's possibilities now to go that way. You see football clubs or sports clubs doing their own content now. And in Denmark, and I guess that's the same in the US, the numbers of readers, viewers are dropping. So if you are clever to produce your content, if you're clever to get the right distribution, and that could be in your newsletter, in email marketing, or it could be a Somi, I think there's possibilities for the companies who's brave enough to go that way. Yeah. And I guess as you highlight this sort of democratization that when you did the shift, it really required a huge buy-in budget -wise to flip around in terms of... Nowadays, it's... No, no. Nowadays, it's a strategic focus. It's to believe in the organization. So it's not the youngest employee in the communication department who's going around with the iPhone, but it's the whole communication department who's doing what we did back then and transforming into a brand newsroom. And really, really believing that we can kick the door into the market and to the customers by our own channels. Yeah, it's kind of beautiful. And it's really only about talent, about people, right? Yeah, absolutely. And how good you collaborate and work together. Yeah, yeah. I guess even team-wise, back then you were quite a big team. Nowadays, you could probably get by with a lot smaller... You see one-man bands getting all the way. Creators, et cetera. Yeah. Definitely, yeah. I think that's a great call for action, I think, on your reflections. Definitely. Also, I think we definitely also, I mean, even overall for a little bit how we failed our website, we make them about video where everything else is about video, making them live. If it's a live webinar, it's on the front of the website. And, you know, I mean, how do we even... I think video is even starting to sort of impact our overall channels a little bit. Yeah, and then work with the webinars and with the data. So in the bank, we categorize the viewers. So if you have viewed more than 10 minutes of the webinar, you get in a special category, and you get a special treatment from the business unit. So they don't waste time on bad leads or weaker leads. And people attending the polls, they will see what are they interesting in, what are they answering. So if they're answering, I do not have a summer house, for example, well, they're probably in the market for a summer house if they're watching a webinar about the summer house. So there's a lot of data hidden in the webinar platform. Which really requires you to system integrate as a person, right? Yeah, yeah. Multiple different things here to be a good webinar program manager or video producer or this kind of change agent that you really put a team together on. Super interesting. I think we want to take a lot of questions because we have some interesting ones. I think we have a few quick ones that we can just start with. So we got a question from Aaron. What advice would you give to other traditional industries and what other industries do you think will start doing video and webinars in the future? What advice would you give? Get started. Get started. Just do it. Yeah, just do it and test and learn. And every company, every industry have their specialists. And in many ways, banking is boring. So when people are telling me, well, you were lucky to produce video for a bank. No, actually not. I would love to do a lot of other industries. So find the niche in your industry that's appeal maybe to a small target group, maybe to a big target group. But start there. Don't do too many trend stories. But find your niche. Find what's in the core of what your company knows about. That you already have the content in your company. Yeah, exactly. And you have the experts. Yeah, exactly. Go hunt and scout for those. Yeah, and there's a lot of talents. Only younger people. Definitely. We have one from Marte on the team size, I think. Or from Mikkel, sorry, here. You mentioned you produce videos every day. How big is the team at Jyske Bank TV working with videos now? So just when you left, how many people were on the team doing video and webinars? The TV video part, five journalists, two photographers, two producers. Two producers. So nine, ten-ish. Yeah. And I guess at some point you were... We were bigger. You were bigger. Back in the days. Because it required a lot more people and hosts. Yeah, and we produced more. Yeah. Much more. Back then we did a thousand pieces of content a year. Yeah. Now it's... Yeah, not so much. But to the previous question, how to get started and so on, there's a lot of content out there. So don't focus on producing a lot. Focus on producing the best, the best target content. We don't need more content in this world. We need better content. We need good content. Absolutely. Relevant content, yeah. That's great advice to start with that and then build from that. Yeah, yeah. And then you can start adding more to your thing. Then we got a question from Marte on how has Jyske Bank TV impacted the commercial side of the Jyske Bank's organization? Sort of, you know, you told about delivering leads to the business. Even, I guess, the overall sort of perception of the company. I also remember you at one point had an internal app where everyone in the company could play your video, play your videos. So it was also like an internal aspect to it, to all the thousands of employees. Yeah, we have 50% of the Jyske Bank TV project has been internal. And to build the internal culture, to build the community. And on the business part, to be honest, it was a gut feeling for many years. But it supported the brand's strategy because we want to be a bank with a difference. So that the fact that we had a TV station made us a different bank. So there was this perfect match. And of course, later on with more digitalization and with especially the webinars, yeah, we can measure and we can show that the money or the time spent on producing video is paid back by the business. Yeah, so. Great. We have another one from Marta. This gets a little bit even, so a little bit personal. Are you going to build a TV station at your next workplace? That's a good question, Marta. Thanks for that one. I love video. And I think it's so strong communication. And you see it all around. And even though I originally started literature, I by far prefer to watch things. I like to see people talking. I like to be able to see people in the eyes. I like when we do something internal that our CEO is standing there. You can see him. You can kind of feel him. So yeah, if I had to get another job, yeah, probably build. And that would be an extremely interesting experiment. I get that question also. Back then, if I should build it again, would you do it the same way? And for sure not. We had a lot of focus on the equipment, on the studio, on the camera. And it was expensive back then. I would really try to find a loophole. How could this be done in an extremely clever way? Yeah. A bunch of iPhones and something like that. Super interesting. I think in the meanwhile, we can tip all you viewers that Les is giving a lot of speeches and advising people and sharing his story while he's in this open, explorative phase. So we're looking forward to seeing what's next. I guess even you are, I guess. Then let's see. We have a question from... Yeah, let's take one from Marta again here. A little bit on being a changemaker and how to work with it. Do you have any tips on how to handle internal stakeholders that are against or negative towards the project? Even though you have the backing from the CEO, I can find it hard to get other team members on board. So how do you mobilize? How do you evangelize? Even if you've got the top-level buy-in, but how do you get people to change and actually get along with the energy around going on camera and going on video and webinars? Yeah. In this... Small forum. It's been a struggle. Because we were out so early and there was a lot also internally who thought that it would pass over. It's just a phase. Yeah. But over the years, we're better to integrate the business units and they could see the benefits from it. From the feedback from the customers or they could see how we could buy our skills in producing live TV as an event. We could support our private banking segment or our business segment with an approach that's not just something we bought from an agency, but this is coming from the heart of the bank. But there hasn't been a lot of discussions on the way and we have been fighting for our rights to live. But yeah. But I guess that's just the logic of being a changemaker. If you want to go out there, you have to go out there and you get some beating. But keep on it. It's the right way. It's the right thing to do for a digital, professional, modern company to be strong in video in one way or the other. I mean, it's not controversial. Not at all. It's almost a must. But in 2.8 or 2.10, it was, why are you doing this? Why are we a TV station? Absolutely. Interesting. I think that's also interesting, this idea that it might be kind of early again and to some extent a little bit your pep talk on video that video seems a little bit mature, right? Also because we don't really have these hype cycles in video. Video is just a constant, huge paradigm shift that's been running for 180 years if you count all the way back to the invention of video film, but it's sort of 20 years in sort of modern internet era of video, right? And it seems that it goes a little bit up and down. It's never going to be a hype cycle where people go crazy like AI or other, I don't know, sort of the blockchain or where everyone went crazy for 18 months and they all dropped it again afterwards again. That type of hype cycle where you just see craziness going on and then eventually it starts delivering four, five, six years later, right? Videos just this constant. Yeah, like the written language, like the spoken language video is, yeah, will always be there. But I think we are at an interesting time where things are, we are getting used to the social media in a new way. We're getting used to produce with iPhone and things and we are putting some AI things in it as well. So it's going to be quite, it's probably a wrong way to put it to say it's going to be easy, but it's not going to be easy. But you're going to get some tools. If you're clever and you're doing it right, you can produce very, very good content, which is extremely relevant with extremely timing for your employees or for your customers. So, yeah. But it sort of requires you to be a change maker again. That's also what we see in video, that sometimes it plateaus a little bit. I think it's interesting to point out that even the people running these teams or being the change changes, right? Yeah. That I mean, back then, obviously you guys were doing very pioneering work, but, but also this idea that, you know, being a video producer, I think that some of the stories we often hear about people using 23 and being sort of the change maker video views and not just the producer producer, but the one driving the change on video and that people can't understand why they're sitting chatting to the CEO of a huge professional services firm down, down in the cafe and why they're hocking them even because they get to have very, I mean, they're literally, you know, putting microphones on them and they get them to, to get on camera in a good way. So they build very strong, close relationships, right? So I think there's this sort of energy around video sort of as, as this being a change maker again on it, because it is so much working with the whole organization nowadays. It's not just confined. No, but also try to try to think in a different way. We were a sponsor for a golf tournament. And we thought we could do something different. So we broadcast that without the possibility of the rights to, to show the actual game, we had eight hours live from, from tournament with guests all the day. And then we put in, because people, the viewers screen, so they watched the tournament on, on the second screen. And then we put on a competition where we at the, what's it called in golf when you're getting close to the, to the hole. Oh, the, yeah, whatever. We're not strong on golf. No, not true. We put up in, in, in, in different squares with numbers. So, so there was a competition where, where, where our viewers could guess where the ball would land and then win prizes. Okay. So, so the need to be out on our screen, as well while they're, what's the golf tournament. And so try things. Yeah. And also a great example of, I think some of the offices speak about with a lot of the 23 customers that it's great that we built the studios to have these like fixed organizational capabilities. You go in, press the button and then you go, but it's also about, you know, how do you get out there to the conferences, visit customers, do a case webinar out in your customer's factory or their shops or whatever type of business they are, you know, show, show this stuff. You don't normally get access to get into the board meeting board room of, of some big company and do the webinar from there because nobody would have been in that room ever before. Right. It's about being in places you'd never would necessarily have been in and not necessarily only in our, in our studio here. Right. And, and, and, and, and because when, when the bank has this nice studio facility, it's, it's, it's the easiest and cheapest way to do it so often. But, but if, if we can, if we can contact one of the, the, the business customers, they would love to, to lend out their container and invite employees for an evening and so on. So, so yeah, that's, that's a lot of possibilities. There's a lot of excitement. Great, Lasse. I think, and thank you all for, for all the questions that came in. I think there's a lot of more advice from, from Lasse to come, perhaps also on, on his new journey in life. So, thanks for joining us. Thanks for joining us, Lasse. It's, it's been a pleasure. We're very excited about seeing what's ahead. And, and thank you for, for a close collaboration for many years on, on, on moving, us moving the, the software side of it while you have been, been, been an incredible change maker and pioneer, 18 years of the, of Music Bank TV. So, and I guess more to come. So, thank you all for, for tuning in for, for our little fireside chat. And thanks for joining us. Thanks for joining Webinar Days. Back to you, Amelia. Big thank you to both Lasse and Thomas for taking us on, on this journey through, yeah, how you scaled webinars at Yiski Bank and created its own TV station. You really, you heard it here first. Video is not a trend that's going anywhere. Video is here to stay. And Lasse's advice is to just get started. The world doesn't need more content, but it needs better content. Thank you so much to both of our speakers for this dynamic fireside chat. It was a pleasure to have you both. I have one more trick up my sleeve and it is a very interesting product tip on the video library. That is the latest update from 23. And we are here with Julius, who is going to give us a little bit of a product tip. Do all of the people in your company have access to all of the relevant marketing videos out in the world using your video library? Yes, we do. We have a great tool to get all of these tools and things into the hands of the people in your organization. That means that now all of your 1000 marketing videos can be shared across everyone in your organization. All of that integrated into the 23 platform natively. However, you can also get all of these great functionalities on your own mobile device now with the new 23 app that we will be launching soon. Everything from the 23 video library directly on your phone. Here in the 23 app, I can find all of my company's marketing videos, including all recently uploaded and recorded personal videos that I've created myself or that my colleagues have shared with me. All of the videos that have been uploaded here, I can just select here, show it to someone in a meeting. If I have this great video that I would want to share, I can download it to my mobile device, share it natively with someone on a great set up landing page. But also even better, I have the possibility to upload a video on the fly while I'm out there in the world. If I have a great video that I would want to share with all of my colleagues that my colleagues should also share with the world, I can easily just go in and upload a video from my library from here. If you have any questions regarding the video library or the 23 app, feel free to reach out to me at julius at 23.com. Thank you so much, Julius, for taking us on a little sneak peek of the video library. And like you said, feel free to reach out to Julius if you have any further questions about that. Other than that, it's sad for me to say that we are actually at the end of Webinar Days 2024. And it's been an absolute pleasure to have been your hostess. I want to give a big thank you to all of our wonderful speakers who have really contributed to move the field of video and webinars forward. And I really felt that we were able to come together and have a great webinar session together. I do want to remind you of a couple of things. Please take five minutes to fill out the webinar survey if you want to be part of the report. It is the world's biggest report with data analytics on webinars. And if you've contributed to the report, you would probably also be curious to hear about those results and findings. So please sign up to the launch webinar happening on January 16th. Links to the survey and link to the webinar should be in the chat so you can take your time to fill that out at your own convenience. Other than that, I want to say a big thank you to our participants who have been with us all day. And thank you so much for your engagement, your questions, your reactions. It's been an absolute pleasure. Please remember, you can access these sessions on demand. So if you missed out on some of the magic that happened on day one, or you have some sessions that you think could be very relevant to your colleagues or coworkers, then they can also get a chance to consume the content. And other than that, I hope you feel inspired. I hope you feel equipped. I hope you have everything you need to take your webinars to the next level in 2025 and scale those webinars. I will see you at the next one. Bye-bye. Thank you. Thank you.